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  1. #21
    Feral druids, affliction/demo warlocks, survival hunters, arcane mages, MW Monks and every DK spec seems to be lagging behind atm.

    Generally speaking if your a monk/rogue/mage/boomy you'll have a much easier time getting into groups atm. But yeah most specs seem to be performing pretty well, things defiantly seem more balanced than usual at the moment. Hell Ret Paladins are even good, I don't think I can remember a time since WotLK where that was the case.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Puxycat View Post
    It is even worse than Classic now, you have;
    Best spec+best covenant for Mythic+
    Best spec+best covenant for PvP
    Best spec+best covenant for Raid
    All rest are bad spec or considered not viable.
    Edit: Forgot to even mention the "best legendary" combined with these.
    This is true if you are terrible at the game. The spec is irrelevent. Bad players will always perform badly. Things like RIO are far more important.
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    why so mad bro

  3. #23

  4. #24
    Over 9000! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElDoorO View Post
    Are there any specs, currently in this patch, that are so horrible that you'd recommend not be used in any situation (World, BG, Arena, Raid, M+)?

    It seems like, roughly, things are "close enough" that a competent player of a spec if better than an incompetent player of a "good" class+spec.

    So excluding personal preference, are there any specs so bad that the spec alone, for the moment, is a "horrible choice"?

    I'm an altaholic so I tend to bounce around and right now it seems gear and skill matters more than class+spec in, literally, every single way. Is this an incorrect assumption?
    There really aren't, but GL convincing the average pugger. I had pretty much accepted that I would only be accepted as a healing priest in M+, since shadow is effectively blacklisted (as far as pugs go, anyway).
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    It's not really retconning though. There's plenty we didn't know from WC3 - a story which is just about 20 years old. The Jailer is the backbone of that story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's interesting how a character that didn't exist back then could be the backbone of the story. Guess that story must have been an invertebrate then.

  5. #25
    I don't remember a time in wow when the classes were as balanced as they are now (I'm talking from a dps point of view PvE) even M+ is not as bad as some people make it up to be, any spec can easy clear 20+ which is a level vast majority of people will never reach, too many people overestimate their skill or do the content where actually class matter(aka very very high level of M+ and world first)

  6. #26
    There are no specs that are truly "dead" specs anymore. Many expansions ago, certain specs, like Sub or Frost were basically dead specs for PvE. That isn't the case anymore: you can complete high level content on any spec and not be a liability as long as you are good at playing it well. At the VERY top, i.e. early Mythic raiding and really high M+, there are of course specs that are preferred and not- but if you're not in the very top 1% (or less?) of players, you can succeed at any spec. In most cases 90% of it is how well you play the spec, not the spec you play.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
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  7. #27
    2H Frost still in the shitter

  8. #28
    The Patient Puxycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    This is true if you are terrible at the game. The spec is irrelevent. Bad players will always perform badly. Things like RIO are far more important.

    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...d/leaderboards
    Just go and take a look and tell me about how good all other classes/specs also are, or it happens to be only monk mage and rogue players are good at the game and all of the shadow priests are mostly unskilled guys. Guess it is not the case.
    Last edited by Puxycat; 2021-11-28 at 01:04 AM.
    A very cool signature text.

  9. #29
    Shadowlands is arguably the most balanced expansion, eh, balance wise among dps for raids, ever.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Puxycat View Post
    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...d/leaderboards
    Just go and take a look and tell me about how good all other classes/specs also are, or it happens to be only monk mage and rogue players are good at the game and all of the shadow priests are mostly unskilled guys. Guess it is not the case.
    You're looking at the top in the world where a defined meta definitely matters. I 100% guarantee you are nowhere near top world caliber where any of that metagaming matters.

    Stop bringing world ranks up as a reason to decide whats good or bad. When everyone is the same pro-level skill in any competitive game, that's when the meta matters. When most people on MMO-Champ are +15 key players none of this meta comp nonsense matters. Just stop.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Saying "best spec" for any one piece of the game and saying that all the rest are bad because they might be a couple of percentage points off is nonsense. I don't think that for DPS specs there are any that are outright terrible as there used to be years ago. These days smooth play and lack of awkwardness in lining up abilities is what makes one spec 'better' than others.

    In any case, skill and good response to priorities brings more to the table than most differences in spec setup.
    Problem is many people have that attitude, the only scale they use if a class/spec is good enough is if it does maximum deeps or not...and even then it gets worse because it only matters if it performs in their favorite area

    Like been seeing a lot of shit being talked about how bad survival is because of its low dps....but it's a rather great performers in pvp. Tons of cc and gap closers for a melee...but all that matters is damage to many.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  12. #32
    All the specs are more balanced now than ever.

    For tanks, all of them are the same, raid tanking is still boring af so it doesn't matter, M+ tanking has its moments for certain classes depending on dungeon but noone will ever turn away a tank, whatever class they are.

    For healers, they find their spots too. While some healers have better cooldowns for certain content, none of them are useless and usually you can get a good mix of them.
    Healer dps might be talking point here, but identifying "useless" specs by analyzing what works in 25+ mythic dungeons is a bit stupid.

    DPS is more varied than ever.
    I haven't seen a "need DH/rogue/mage/x specific class" description in the dungeon finder since BfA. Only the occasional need BL or Note *covenant*.
    Which is a good indication that people don't really care about the class itself, which means the classes are close enough in performance to not matter.

    Some people fail to understand that specs have different pros and cons.
    Nothing is useless but there will be always a best pick in any scenario, that's literally how every game works.
    But until very high-end Mythic content it really doesn't matter.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Guardian of the First Ones is the purest DPS check in the raid. The slowest kill of that boss is here, at 5:59. The raid did 113k DPS.
    The worst recorded spec in the game for that fight is Destruction Warlock, which deals 8.8k DPS on average to that boss. Based on this, 14 Destruction Warlocks would deal on average 123.5k DPS, comfortably more than the required 113k. While this analysis does have some flaws (namely not accounting for DPS variance due to kill time and the presence of raid buffs), it strongly indicates that the worst possible DPS comp for the fight would still be capable of killing it. It's not close, they're comfortably above the required DPS.
    It also assumes a group with gear beyond that boss and a host of other issues that make it rather pointless. I don't really get why the wow playerbase resists the fact that a few specs are dead weight... its been over a decade. It is better now then it has ever been but it still holds true.

  14. #34
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    Nah you can play anything now and be successful. You will have to work a bit harder on some specs than others though.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Puxycat View Post
    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...d/leaderboards
    Just go and take a look and tell me about how good all other classes/specs also are, or it happens to be only monk mage and rogue players are good at the game and all of the shadow priests are mostly unskilled guys. Guess it is not the case.
    M+ is 100% meta focused. They dont care if your class is going to pull enough dps to time a key, they care about reference. There is a lot of reference on what to do with these specific classes to time keys. That's until someone figures out (*cough* MDI *cough*) something else or changes happen. Yes, there are a lot of hamsters that follow high key meta in the 15-18 range but you can always just go in with friends/guildies.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nootz View Post
    When most people on MMO-Champ are +15 key players none of this meta comp nonsense matters. Just stop.
    Hell I bet even this is overestimating the skill level here. I'd be surprised if only half of the active players on this forum (of which I'm not one) can even get into those runs and are instead languishing in the +4-9 hellscape because of bad IO scores.

    Overall WoW dps is very balanced these days and for any content that matters any spec combination CAN do it. Whether it will be the fastest/most efficient is another story, but that's moving the goalposts imo.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    Yes but it is far better now then it has been at any other time I would argue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Shadowlands is arguably the most balanced expansion, eh, balance wise among dps for raids, ever.
    And there's your problem. Raiding is just one aspect, theres still PvP (which is terribly balanced right now) and mythic+ (which has fairly large problems with balance too).

    Though I wouldnt even call it the most balanced time for raiding. Why yes, it certainly is fairly balanced for that at the moment, this isnt the first time that's happened. Its just the last two expansions had periods where the balance was wildly off during some tiers which is coloring your perception.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  18. #38
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    Enhancement shaman

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Probably depends on where we draw the line between bad, viable and balanced. Is a spec "bad" because it performs, say, ten percent worse than the best spec?
    A lot of things can contribute. Lack of utility can be crippling in dungeon or raiding environments. Lack of defense options in all of them. Its not just about DPS.

    I feel a lot of people going "Its very balanced right now" are just saying that becasue well, no one ("casuals" included) are playing notably underperforming ones. Out of sight, out of mind.

    Though a difference of 10% dps is fairly large if both have similar utility.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Enhancement shaman
    I play enha, and I think it's competitive. You have great utilities, interrupt, speed increase, BL/hero, aoe stun, slows, offheals, ressing yourself in combat. Both aoe and single target damage is okay with the right legendary. Great burst. Also, it's just my opinion, but feels really fun to play.

    I think it's more about people not wanting to give chance to certain specs, because they just want the fastest run, with highest chance of doing it on time (I mean, can you blame them ? ) And so for example a feral druid rarely will get picked over a monk.

    But yeah, overall, I think enha is not in as bad as a spot as I see it's portraied to be in a lot of the places.

    As far as I see, for a +15 key, you should have no issue brining any class right now that has the gear, and good knowledge of their class. And since that's the max gear that you can get, I'd say it's pretty balanced atm. Ofc, after +15 it's starting to get very much about min/max, but I still think that if you're good at your class, you can do +20-22 with everything in time. But it's more punishing if you mess something up on certain classes.

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