Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Corvus]

The Guardian: Moscow says West has declared ‘total war’ on Russia

Alright, the title is Lavrov business as usual, blah blah "the West" blah blah "total war". But look at this quote:



Russia is calling western support of Ukraine "cancel culture". Really. I feel like I'm living in a parody timeline.

That's not even the dumbest thing the Russians have said today. Apparently the UK is on the verge of cannibalism.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....-b2088534.html

[Lahis]

You do realize that there is more than military victory here ? And that war is far from over, Ukrainians seems determined to fight for a very long time, so it seems that Russia is going for a Pyrrhic victory which does not seem like a victory at all.

Plus, everyone has seen the "mighty" russian army in action, and Russian has lost a lot of standing on that front.

Ukrainians have no other option than to fight. If they quit Russia will destroy them all. Putin's objective from the start has been to erase Ukrainians nation and people from the map and history.

[Iphie]

That's not even the dumbest thing the Russians have said today. Apparently the UK is on the verge of cannibalism.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....-b2088534.html

Eh, this one is a good contender as well, given that they share a border with Ukraine:

* Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has warned the West that supplying weapons to Ukraine capable of hitting Russian territory would be "a serious step towards unacceptable escalation", Tass news agency said.

I'm fairly certain I know what he means but if this a literal quote then it's really poorly worded.

[MCMLXXXII]

Eh, this one is a good contender as well, given that they share a border with Ukraine:



I'm fairly certain I know what he means but if this a literal quote then it's really poorly worded.

Damn it, even supplying a slingshot would mean "the West" cause WW3

[Shalcker]

Wait, do you actually think than any country would disclose what their plans are ? Are you that stupid ? By that metrics, the US never sent anyone on the moon since they could have fake it !

So "as was initial plan" is pure speculation. Or "What West expected, repurposed as 'what Russians actually wanted' ".

Noone goes into war with just a single plan too.

Russia spent tons of mens and equipment (including elite troops like paratroopers) into the meat grinder for nothing ? No, they tried to rush Kiev to get Zelensky, depose him, and install a puppet. irak tooks 3 weeks in and all and it was 10000 km away form the US.

Not exactly "for nothing" - after all, that did hold Ukrainian forces in place there while Russia took Kherson, Melitopol, and surrounded Mariupol, and there were plenty of hits on Ukrainian military targets while they were there.

But it probably hinged on somewhat different reaction from Ukrainian (and possibly Western) side that failed to materialize - as did "goodwill" withdrawal.

But non-instant win is still a win.

- - - Updated - - -

Meanwhile Russian TV "Channel 1" already does reports from Melitopol / Zaporizhye about formerly repurposed to army needs factory turning back to making agricultural spare parts, as well as farmers preparing for opening of Donetsk/Luhansk/Russian markets.

As a reminder, Russia already set those territories taken since March to use Rouble and Russian timezone, as well as simplified process of getting Russian passports there.

And noone will care that West will not recognize that, just like West didn't recognize Crimea.

[Specialka]

So "as was initial plan" is pure speculation. Or "What West expected, repurposed as 'what Russians actually wanted' ".

Noone goes into war with just a single plan too.

Not exactly "for nothing" - after all, that did hold Ukrainian forces in place there while Russia took Kherson, Melitopol, and surrounded Mariupol, and there were plenty of hits on Ukrainian military targets while they were there.

But it probably hinged on somewhat different reaction from Ukrainian (and possibly Western) side that failed to materialize - as did "goodwill" withdrawal.

But non-instant win is still a win.

Nah, Russia expected West to stay still but it did not unfold as what was expected. Now, those pussies cry everywhere that the West hates Russia (bla bla bla).

A win where you show everyone that you are weak is not the win you think it is.

[Shalcker]

A win where you show everyone that you are weak is not the win you think it is.

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

Maybe it is you who are shown to be so weak you cannot bring Russia on it's knees no matter how hard you try despite your declared "superiority", have you thought about that?

[Specialka]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

Maybe it is you who are shown to be so weak you cannot bring Russia on it's knees no matter how hard you try despite your declared "superiority", have you thought about that?

The facts are not going your way, unless all you drink is propaganda.

[Levelfive]

Ukraine is not a superpower as Russia claims to be one. If Russia was that superpower, they would have steamroll Ukraine in 3 days as it was the initial plan. And the world can also see that Russia is not a partner to whom you can trust.

Anyone remember this lolololol

"2. RIA Novosti news agency accidentally published an article, tagged with a publication date of 8AM on February 26, already celebrating a Russian victory and collapse of the Ukrainian state within an anticipated two days. It's still on their site."

https://twitter.com/Tom_deWaal/statu...HBLx-5FUkmUR-g

[MCMLXXXII]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine Russia had suffered failure after failure

Fixed that.

[Shalcker]

The facts are not going your way, unless all you drink is propaganda.

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

[Poopymonster]

Fixed that.

Ukraine is failing.
They are failing to die to Russia Stronk military.
They are failing to starve when cities are surrounded.
They are failing to surrender when conscripts come in to rape and pillage. No "Just lie back and try to enjoy it" as a Republican in Michigan said.
They are failing to be crushed in month 3 of a 3 day weekend special operation.
Mother Russia. Ukraine has failed you.

[Specialka]

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

Simply because you did not steam roll à 90's era army. You claimed you could, you tried and failed miserably.

Now, the war has entered a new phase with a war of attrition. It is not going to be fast, and it is going to cost a lot more than expected.

[Saradain]

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

Didn't you claim Mariupol fell about months before it actually did? What's this, a post you didn't delete that contradicts you?

Which attempt where? There have been a lot of them announced lately; doesn't seem to produce many successes.

It's not like every Ukrainian tank is destroyed even by those figures.

Mariupol had fallen; encircled army in Donbass is soon to follow.

Posted on 25th of March. Took your orcish army quite a while of just shelling everything in the city and wiping it off the face of the planet just to get access to it. And after, you went in and started to spew propaganda and re-education plans on ukrainian children. Can't have them use their eyes to see what you did to their city, so you gotta indoctrinate them at young age!

https://newsbulletin247.com/world/103088.html
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/...ariupol-a77819
https://www.worldstockmarket.net/ukr...l-by-russians/

Let's not forget they will have to go school in russian language, can't have em remember their own language so they could integrate back to their own society later on!

https://twitter.com/Tom_deWaal/statu...HBLx-5FUkmUR-g

Reminder of russian few-day victory, now over 3 months later!

Let's see a small part translated in Ria Novosti via the said twitter link...
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226...775162336.html

Now this problem does not exist – Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be restructured, re-established and returned to its natural state part of the Russian world.

Facts: Ukraine has not returned to Russia. Russia has tried to liquidate its statehood, while actively "restructuring" it's alive-to-dead civilian population ratio, the spoken language and used currency.

Yeah, sounds like russian people are not getting facts on their side, just propaganda and state actors spreading disinformation even as far as MMO-Champion.

[Shalcker]

Simply because you did not steam roll à 90's era army. You claimed you could, you tried and failed miserably.

As far as I see I never claimed that.

Again, you're speaking about some imaginary "Russian plan" that neither of us can prove or disprove to exist.

Now, the war has entered a new phase with a war of attrition. It is not going to be fast, and it is going to cost a lot more than expected.

So? Most of those costs were already paid upfront when missiles and ammunition were produced - produced to be used in appropriate situation, not just to look pretty in stockpiles.

And this war of attrition so far favors Russia as Ukraine makes no gains and only mounts losses.

How much are you spending to prop up Ukraine? 5-7 billions per month? How much does supporting millions of refugees costs?

For how long do you think you can realistically keep that up?

[shimerra]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

Maybe it is you who are shown to be so weak you cannot bring Russia on it's knees no matter how hard you try despite your declared "superiority", have you thought about that?

Russia told us this would be over in a week. Two tops. It's been months now and you're doing the opposite of gaining ground in some areas. Second greatest military in the world according to you guys couldn't topple Ukraine within its own timeframe.


And while some western countries are suffering short term annoyances they pale compared to the long term damage to Russia. I mean unless you're an absolutely idiot even a blatant propagandist like yourself has to see the truly massive impact being kicked off SWIFT would have on any economy. Not to mention the fact that you've basically accelerated by decades the West's movement away from Russian gas. These are all objective facts/things that happened that even someone as blind to you can't deny that they at least happened even if you'll work so hard for your Turnips to convince us otherwise. So while the west has some short term headaches Russia's going to have an economic foot amputated long term. Foreign cash reserves and ability to cheaply and quickly conducts international trade? Gone. Ability to sell gas in the short tern with a permanent removal of most if not all demand? Already in progress. Good job! Russia winning!


And the people that Russia would need to worry about if it continues its pointless invasion of another country are not the ones suffering enough to impact their military readiness. Which it seems like your daddy Putin wants to get too big for his britches and double down on Russian failures in Ukraine.


Your pathetic defense of Russian failure is basically Wimplow from Kung Pow! Enter the fist. Since I'm not sure if you seen the movie it's a spoof of old school kung fu movies. Wimplow is a character they trained wrong so that he thinks that when he's losing he's actually winning. As a joke. Stop being like Wimplow. You're not winning.

[Dontrike]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *Looks at Russia's economy and military and compares them to any other one* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH

[ParanoiD84]

Russians sure like to drive isolated vehicles for the other side to easily blow up, lots of clips on that like some Americans and uk volontiers having a field day over there picking them off.

[Pann]

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

I don't think that anyone would expect you to show the bravery and courage of your fellow countrymen and women who have protested against Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine but here you are cheerleading the murder, rape and abduction of innocent Ukrainians, the destruction of their cities and homes and theft of their property!

Quite why you are allowed back, time after time, to spout this vile rhetoric is beyond me.

[Shalcker]

And while some western countries are suffering short term annoyances they pale compared to the long term damage to Russia. I mean unless you're an absolutely idiot even a blatant propagandist like yourself has to see the truly massive impact being kicked off SWIFT would have on any economy. Not to mention the fact that you've basically accelerated by decades the West's movement away from Russian gas. These are all objective facts/things that happened that even someone as blind to you can't deny that they at least happened even if you'll work so hard for your Turnips to convince us otherwise. So while the west has some short term headaches Russia's going to have an economic foot amputated long term. Foreign cash reserves and ability to cheaply and quickly conducts international trade? Gone. Ability to sell gas in the short tern with a permanent removal of most if not all demand? Already in progress. Good job! Russia winning!

If we're talking "long-term" then West absolutely obliterated trust in their financial system and rule of law, and created reason for the whole world to start de-dollarizing - driving one of main Western pillars down. See Saudis talking with China to sell oil in yuan - they don't want to bet on next US administration not seizing all their assets in a same way West did with Russia.

And just like West "speeds up transition from Russian energy", so does Russia "speeds up transition from European consumers". The writing was always on the wall, and plans were already being made. Meanwhile every step EU makes to "speed up transition" drives up energy prices and increases Russian profits to pay for Russian re-alignment while hurting Western consumers.

And guess what... at the moment there simply isn't enough gas and oil produced in the world to replace Russia, as producers keep telling Europeans trying to gets them as replacement. Not when you openly shunned any new production because they didn't align with "climate change/green agenda" with long-term underinvestment into new production catching up to post-covid economic recovery.

Just "switching whole Europe to LNG" would take half of world's entire LNG production - and requires years of building up costly alternative supporting infrastructure, ships, facilities, interconnectors...

Western pain will be with you for years to come; price increases with increased LNG costs will become permanent, competitiveness of European industries will plummet while also making you dependent on Middle Eastern despots - who clearly try to wring every bit out of you for the privilege.