Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Specialka]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

Maybe it is you who are shown to be so weak you cannot bring Russia on it's knees no matter how hard you try despite your declared "superiority", have you thought about that?

The facts are not going your way, unless all you drink is propaganda.

[Levelfive]

Ukraine is not a superpower as Russia claims to be one. If Russia was that superpower, they would have steamroll Ukraine in 3 days as it was the initial plan. And the world can also see that Russia is not a partner to whom you can trust.

Anyone remember this lolololol

"2. RIA Novosti news agency accidentally published an article, tagged with a publication date of 8AM on February 26, already celebrating a Russian victory and collapse of the Ukrainian state within an anticipated two days. It's still on their site."

https://twitter.com/Tom_deWaal/statu...HBLx-5FUkmUR-g

[Hansworst]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine Russia had suffered failure after failure

Fixed that.

[Shalcker]

The facts are not going your way, unless all you drink is propaganda.

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

[Poopymonster]

Fixed that.

Ukraine is failing.
They are failing to die to Russia Stronk military.
They are failing to starve when cities are surrounded.
They are failing to surrender when conscripts come in to rape and pillage. No "Just lie back and try to enjoy it" as a Republican in Michigan said.
They are failing to be crushed in month 3 of a 3 day weekend special operation.
Mother Russia. Ukraine has failed you.

[Specialka]

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

Simply because you did not steam roll à 90's era army. You claimed you could, you tried and failed miserably.

Now, the war has entered a new phase with a war of attrition. It is not going to be fast, and it is going to cost a lot more than expected.

[Saradain]

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

Didn't you claim Mariupol fell about months before it actually did? What's this, a post you didn't delete that contradicts you?

Which attempt where? There have been a lot of them announced lately; doesn't seem to produce many successes.

It's not like every Ukrainian tank is destroyed even by those figures.

Mariupol had fallen; encircled army in Donbass is soon to follow.

Posted on 25th of March. Took your orcish army quite a while of just shelling everything in the city and wiping it off the face of the planet just to get access to it. And after, you went in and started to spew propaganda and re-education plans on ukrainian children. Can't have them use their eyes to see what you did to their city, so you gotta indoctrinate them at young age!

https://newsbulletin247.com/world/103088.html
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/...ariupol-a77819
https://www.worldstockmarket.net/ukr...l-by-russians/

Let's not forget they will have to go school in russian language, can't have em remember their own language so they could integrate back to their own society later on!

https://twitter.com/Tom_deWaal/statu...HBLx-5FUkmUR-g

Reminder of russian few-day victory, now over 3 months later!

Let's see a small part translated in Ria Novosti via the said twitter link...
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226...775162336.html

Now this problem does not exist – Ukraine has returned to Russia. This does not mean that its statehood will be liquidated, but it will be restructured, re-established and returned to its natural state part of the Russian world.

Facts: Ukraine has not returned to Russia. Russia has tried to liquidate its statehood, while actively "restructuring" it's alive-to-dead civilian population ratio, the spoken language and used currency.

Yeah, sounds like russian people are not getting facts on their side, just propaganda and state actors spreading disinformation even as far as MMO-Champion.

[Shalcker]

Simply because you did not steam roll à 90's era army. You claimed you could, you tried and failed miserably.

As far as I see I never claimed that.

Again, you're speaking about some imaginary "Russian plan" that neither of us can prove or disprove to exist.

Now, the war has entered a new phase with a war of attrition. It is not going to be fast, and it is going to cost a lot more than expected.

So? Most of those costs were already paid upfront when missiles and ammunition were produced - produced to be used in appropriate situation, not just to look pretty in stockpiles.

And this war of attrition so far favors Russia as Ukraine makes no gains and only mounts losses.

How much are you spending to prop up Ukraine? 5-7 billions per month? How much does supporting millions of refugees costs?

For how long do you think you can realistically keep that up?

[shimerra]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

Maybe it is you who are shown to be so weak you cannot bring Russia on it's knees no matter how hard you try despite your declared "superiority", have you thought about that?

Russia told us this would be over in a week. Two tops. It's been months now and you're doing the opposite of gaining ground in some areas. Second greatest military in the world according to you guys couldn't topple Ukraine within its own timeframe.


And while some western countries are suffering short term annoyances they pale compared to the long term damage to Russia. I mean unless you're an absolutely idiot even a blatant propagandist like yourself has to see the truly massive impact being kicked off SWIFT would have on any economy. Not to mention the fact that you've basically accelerated by decades the West's movement away from Russian gas. These are all objective facts/things that happened that even someone as blind to you can't deny that they at least happened even if you'll work so hard for your Turnips to convince us otherwise. So while the west has some short term headaches Russia's going to have an economic foot amputated long term. Foreign cash reserves and ability to cheaply and quickly conducts international trade? Gone. Ability to sell gas in the short tern with a permanent removal of most if not all demand? Already in progress. Good job! Russia winning!


And the people that Russia would need to worry about if it continues its pointless invasion of another country are not the ones suffering enough to impact their military readiness. Which it seems like your daddy Putin wants to get too big for his britches and double down on Russian failures in Ukraine.


Your pathetic defense of Russian failure is basically Wimplow from Kung Pow! Enter the fist. Since I'm not sure if you seen the movie it's a spoof of old school kung fu movies. Wimplow is a character they trained wrong so that he thinks that when he's losing he's actually winning. As a joke. Stop being like Wimplow. You're not winning.

[Dontrike]

The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *Looks at Russia's economy and military and compares them to any other one* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH

[ParanoiD84]

Russians sure like to drive isolated vehicles for the other side to easily blow up, lots of clips on that like some Americans and uk volontiers having a field day over there picking them off.

[Pann]

Which facts aren't going Russian way?
What are you drinking to come to your conclusions?

Didn't Popasnaya fall to Russians? Didn't Liman? Didn't AzovStal fall and surrendered? Didn't Ukrainians try to retake Snake Island and fail?

How exactly is Russian defeat going to look like if Russia isn't pushed back and just slowly integrates captured territories?

I don't think that anyone would expect you to show the bravery and courage of your fellow countrymen and women who have protested against Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine but here you are cheerleading the murder, rape and abduction of innocent Ukrainians, the destruction of their cities and homes and theft of their property!

Quite why you are allowed back, time after time, to spout this vile rhetoric is beyond me.

[Shalcker]

And while some western countries are suffering short term annoyances they pale compared to the long term damage to Russia. I mean unless you're an absolutely idiot even a blatant propagandist like yourself has to see the truly massive impact being kicked off SWIFT would have on any economy. Not to mention the fact that you've basically accelerated by decades the West's movement away from Russian gas. These are all objective facts/things that happened that even someone as blind to you can't deny that they at least happened even if you'll work so hard for your Turnips to convince us otherwise. So while the west has some short term headaches Russia's going to have an economic foot amputated long term. Foreign cash reserves and ability to cheaply and quickly conducts international trade? Gone. Ability to sell gas in the short tern with a permanent removal of most if not all demand? Already in progress. Good job! Russia winning!

If we're talking "long-term" then West absolutely obliterated trust in their financial system and rule of law, and created reason for the whole world to start de-dollarizing - driving one of main Western pillars down. See Saudis talking with China to sell oil in yuan - they don't want to bet on next US administration not seizing all their assets in a same way West did with Russia.

And just like West "speeds up transition from Russian energy", so does Russia "speeds up transition from European consumers". The writing was always on the wall, and plans were already being made. Meanwhile every step EU makes to "speed up transition" drives up energy prices and increases Russian profits to pay for Russian re-alignment while hurting Western consumers.

And guess what... at the moment there simply isn't enough gas and oil produced in the world to replace Russia, as producers keep telling Europeans trying to gets them as replacement. Not when you openly shunned any new production because they didn't align with "climate change/green agenda" with long-term underinvestment into new production catching up to post-covid economic recovery.

Just "switching whole Europe to LNG" would take half of world's entire LNG production - and requires years of building up costly alternative supporting infrastructure, ships, facilities, interconnectors...

Western pain will be with you for years to come; price increases with increased LNG costs will become permanent, competitiveness of European industries will plummet while also making you dependent on Middle Eastern despots - who clearly try to wring every bit out of you for the privilege.

[Elegiac]

If we're talking "long-term" then West absolutely obliterated trust in their financial system and rule of law, and created reason for the whole world to start de-dollarizing

It's already been explained to you why this is a nonsense talking point in that the justification for the sanctions is only applicable to Russia since India, China, Saudi Arabia, etc. are not in the business of starting genocidal wars of conquest - something which is understood and accepted as evidenced by the way no one besides your puppet states sided with you in the UN.

See Saudis talking with China to sell oil in yuan

Something which has nothing to do with Russian sanctions and isn't actually a threat to the dollar's status as a reserve currency anyway.

Western pain will be with you for years to come; price increases with increased LNG costs will become permanent, competitiveness of European industries will plummet while also making you dependent on Middle Eastern despots - who clearly try to wring every bit out of you for the privilege.

Or, as is more likely the case, the global economy will adjust around Russia's absence barring India and China treating it as an exploitable captive market while decarbonization continues to erode dependence on fossil fuels.

[Twdft]

So? Most of those costs were already paid upfront when missiles and ammunition were produced - produced to be used in appropriate situation, not just to look pretty in stockpiles.

And this war of attrition so far favors Russia as Ukraine makes no gains and only mounts losses.

How much are you spending to prop up Ukraine? 5-7 billions per month? How much does supporting millions of refugees costs?

For how long do you think you can realistically keep that up?

To be honest for as long as it takes for Ukraine to kick you genocidal ruSSians out of the country. For the simple reason that if they don't the next war will include NATO anyway. Because you genocidal aSSholes will not stop with Ukraine if you win. We're still at the stage where we throw money at the problem, and that's fine with me. I have not complained about rising prices etc once.

[Shalcker]

It's already been explained to you why this is a nonsense talking point in that the justification for the sanctions is only applicable to Russia since India, China, Saudi Arabia, etc. are not in the business of starting genocidal wars of conquest - something which is understood and accepted as evidenced by the way no one besides your puppet states sided with you in the UN.

There are constant talks about secondary sanctions that would hit those who still deal with Russia outside of West. Saudis are currently engaged in a lot bloodier war then Ukraine with Yemen, China is accused of genocide of Uighurs, and India gets flak in Western media for their muslim treatment.

So your argument seems to be blind to international reality.

Or, as is more likely the case, the global economy will adjust around Russia's absence barring India and China treating it as an exploitable captive market while decarbonization continues to erode dependence on fossil fuels.

"Adjusting" means giving India and China permanent leg-up on energy over Western countries.

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest for as long as it takes for Ukraine to kick you genocidal ruSSians out of the country. For the simple reason that if they don't the next war will include NATO anyway. Because you genocidal aSSholes will not stop with Ukraine if you win. We're still at the stage where we throw money at the problem, and that's fine with me. I have not complained about rising prices etc once.

"Not complaining" doesn't save you from their effects, nor does it make your win more likely.

Higher Western prices only make Russia extra profits; West would do more damage to Russia if you would "do nothing" and let Russia spend international reserves to prop Russian markets while Western companies would frantically sell everything.

Instead West all-in - and missed the shot.

Maybe you should think before you act... if you do everything and still fail - against weak and unimportant Russia, what do you think the world will think about your power?

...probably that it is already long past it's prime, and was carried by a lot of hot air.

[Elegiac]

There are constant talks about secondary sanctions that would hit those who still deal with Russia outside of West. Saudis are currently engaged in a lot bloodier war then Ukraine with Yemen, China is accused of genocide of Uighurs, and India gets flak in Western media for their muslim treatment.

And again, it has already been explained to you why these instances are not comparable under the precedents of international law with what Russia is doing in Ukraine and everyone besides you understands that they are not in danger of the same level of reprisal from the international community, making "the West is losing credibility" a stupid copium talking point.

You keep trying to bring it up every time you aren't banned, and it remains as stupid now as it has been in every previous instance.

"Adjusting" means giving India and China permanent leg-up on energy over Western countries.

Something which would only be the case if fossil fuels weren't understood to be a transitional resource in a continual state of decline as decarbonization continues to gather steam.

But I guess when you live in a tinpot autocracy with no economic prospects besides fossil fuel exports trying to encourage the belief that alternative energy sources aren't viable or that climate change is a myth is par for the course. Lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Higher Western prices only make Russia extra profits; West would do more damage to Russia if you would "do nothing" and let Russia spend international reserves to prop Russian markets while Western companies would frantically sell everything.

If the sanctions aren't having the desired effect you wouldn't be so vehemently arguing that they aren't doing anything, habibi.

[Iphie]

Meanwhile:

Ukraine needs to face reality and talk to Putin, Zelenskiy says

russia feels that Ukraine is being very unclear, but russia has been flip-flopping as well.

and

Ukraine demands Germany cut or halt Nord Stream 1 gas flows

I don't know how I feel about this. While Ukraine has a point the demands are starting to grate. ( I still want Ukraine to win, obviously.)

[Shalcker]

And again, it has already been explained to you why these instances are not comparable under the precedents of international law with what Russia is doing in Ukraine and everyone besides you understands that they are not in danger of the same level of reprisal from the international community, making "the West is losing credibility" a stupid copium talking point.

They are clearly in danger given how ad-hoc were Western actions against Russia.

And your disagreement bears no weight to those who make decisions in those countries.

China tells US it will not be scared off by sanctions over Taiwan

The United States will face "unimaginable consequences" if it plays the Taiwan card and Beijing will not be intimidated by sanctions like those on Russia, a Chinese foreign vice-minister has said.

...
In response to American warnings that China would face similar sanctions to those placed on Russia if it attacked Taiwan, Le said "China must be unified, and will be unified", and sanctions and isolation "could absolutely not scare China".

"What kind of storms haven't we weathered in the more than 70 years since the founding of the People's Republic of China?" he said, adding that in the past few years the US had already taken coercive measures - such as tariffs, reducing cooperation, arresting people on espionage charges - but was not able to break China.

"Not only has China not collapsed, but we are still thriving with each passing day. What else do we have to fear?"


...and Biden recently said US will still defend Taiwan against China in a military way.
...with White House later "clarifying" it to be arms shipments and the like as in Ukraine rather then direct involvement.

You are openly setting up Taiwan for exact same scenario as Ukraine, and Chinese make notes.

Something which would only be the case if fossil fuels weren't understood to be a transitional resource in a continual state of decline as decarbonization continues to gather steam.

Sure, transitional in energy generation until somewhere around 2050; still to be used in chemical and fertilizer industries past that point.

You cannot build everything from energy alone.

[Levelfive]

This is interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ght-in-ukraine

"Court testimonies given by members of the Rosgvardia unit mentioned in Afanasyev’s reporting confirm earlier reports that 11 Rosgvardia from Khakassia refused to fight.

The testimonies also give weight to suggestions that the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine was intended initially as a blitzkrieg attack on Kyiv with the aim of capturing the capital.

In one testimony, a Roskgvardia soldier told the court that his commander instructed his unit three days prior to the invasion that they would be sent to Ukraine to “patrol the streets and intersections of Kyiv”.

“The commander explained that all employees of the national guard and the Russian armed forces were assigned specific tasks during the special operation in Ukraine. The task of our detachment and for all the other detachments that were stationed with us was to guard the streets and intersections of Kyiv,” said the testimony, seen by the Guardian."