1. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by qil View Post
    U should really read some polish - russian history. Start with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
    Putin said today that he want Imperium back. So probably he will try conquer sooner or later Poland. Not work with Poland but attack us and do typicall russian stuff like rape and murder.
    People can start reading with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish...%E2%80%931618) and understand that Poland started it first.

    "The war was the first major sign of the rivalry and uneasy relations between Poland and Russia which last to this day."

  2. #2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I just wonder if it will be considered "minor incursion" in the end.

    I have a feeling it will be like Crimea - mild sanctions that did not prevent or do anything really, just to put a token checkmark "we responded".
    Gaidax, those supposedly minor sanctions have ensured rouble's course has never recovered. Contrary to Shalcker's bullshit life in Russia has become increasingly more expensive - more than what normally would have happened via natural inflation. Remember that thing about pensions? Doubled since 2013, yet de facto less than back then. It's just shit.

    West is already announcing sanctions, even without them stock market took a plunge.

    As for incursions - people seem to think that invasion is going to happen regardless, the activity at border as only increased up to this moment. And by border I do not mean Donbas.

    Путин поручил обеспечить российскими вооруженными силами функции по поддержанию мира в ДНР и ЛНР

  3. #2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Russia East Ukraine was busy brutalizing Poland and the Baltic Countries long before communism was even a thing.

    As Kennan explained in Sources of Soviet Conduct, the attitudes aren't a function of socialism; they're a function of being Russian East Ukrainian.
    You call Russia for "east ukraine"? when Russia increases in size n ukraine decreases? Lol ok buddy, when reality isn't to your liking, go for fantasy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by alkyd View Post
    People can start reading with this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish...%E2%80%931618) and understand that Poland started it first.

    "The war was the first major sign of the rivalry and uneasy relations between Poland and Russia which last to this day."
    He should probably also go read how his innocent Poland together with Nazi-Germany divided Czechoslovakia...

  4. #2004
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    https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1495871407493988352

    BREAKING: Putin orders peacekeeping mission in Donetsk and Luhansk

  5. #2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
    yea, a old and proven move by dicators sadly.
    The incoming sanctions from EU/USA will play into his hands regarding this, but they need to happen either way.

    shit day
    The silver lining is that even the "War is Peace" strategy still has a material and financial cost to sustain. This is why North Korea, for all its saber rattling, isn't likely to ever actually start something unless their back is absolutely to the wall - its domestic output is entirely tied up in keeping its population in line, which is mutually exclusive with power projection; to say nothing of maintaining order in newly occupied territories.

    Of course, Putain could always try not being an autocrat and actually make his country an attractive place for tourists and investors, but that would entail relinquishing some of his power and putting aside nationalist prejudices (i.e. become more liberal and democratic). And where's the fun in that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    You call Russia for "east ukraine"?
    Yep!

    Imagine how much it must suck to have your country's identity erased by foreigners. I can't think of how this might be a commentary on what's going on in Ukraine. /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
    https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1495871407493988352

    BREAKING: Putin orders peacekeeping mission in Donetsk and Luhansk
    can't see twitter, but this is like 8 years late...should have taken care of this in 2014...

  8. #2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The silver lining is that even the "War is Peace" strategy still has a material and financial cost to sustain. This is why North Korea, for all its saber rattling, isn't likely to ever actually start something unless their back is absolutely to the wall - its domestic output is entirely tied up in keeping its population in line, which is mutually exclusive with power projection; to say nothing of maintaining order in newly occupied territories.

    Of course, Putain could always try not being an autocrat and actually make his country an attractive place for tourists and investors, but that would entail relinquishing some of his power and putting aside nationalist prejudices (i.e. become more liberal and democratic). And where's the fun in that?

    Thats what makes it so sad, Russia have so much potential to thrive and flourish

  9. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    can't see twitter, but this is like 8 years late...should have taken care of this in 2014...
    mad that a corrupt autocrat got thrown out turk?

  10. #2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    How would you reintegrate breakaway provinces without any concessions?
    Since you're such a fan of 19th century foreign policy; if a separatists want to be part of Russia East Ukraine so badly, we'll fund their moving expenses and they can deport themselves. Same goes for the clowns living in the Crimea that want to be part of Putain's circus.

    What's that? It's not actually about 'protecting people' and it's entirely a function of wanting more territory and Black Sea access?

    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-02-21 at 09:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Of course, Putain could always try not being an autocrat and actually make his country an attractive place for tourists and investors, but that would entail relinquishing some of his power and putting aside nationalist prejudices (i.e. become more liberal and democratic). And where's the fun in that?
    That would entail him actually seeing benefit to his country from doing so - and experiment in that direction with Medvedev proven to be disastrous on many levels and didn't actually change Western attitudes one bit.

    So, no benefits, a lot of complications, every conciliatory move is seen as sign of weakness -> back to central power and non-appeasement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Since you're such a fan of 19th century foreign policy; if a separatists want to be part of Russia East Ukraine so badly, we'll fund their moving expenses and they can deport themselves.
    Plenty already did.

    Though i understand citizens of Northern Mexico wouldn't know it.

  12. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Of course, Putain could always try not being an autocrat and actually make his country an attractive place for tourists and investors, but that would entail relinquishing some of his power and putting aside nationalist prejudices (i.e. become more liberal and democratic). And where's the fun in that?
    They tried it in the 90s with Clinton's puppet Eltsin. It didn't quite work out well for Russia.

  13. #2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    That would entail him actually seeing benefit to his country from doing so
    Gee I wonder why a corrupt autocrat wouldn't see the benefit in his country not being a corrupt autocracy.

    Plenty already did.

    Though i understand citizens of Northern Mexico wouldn't know it.
    Perfect! Then let the population exchange begin!

    PS: It's hilarious you think I, a fairly outspoken anti-nationalist, would give a shit what you call the US. I've been calling it Canada's Pants since I was in school.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-02-21 at 09:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    mad that a corrupt autocrat got thrown out turk?
    Aren't you british? I heard that Argentina made a sweet economic deal with China recently n China recognized Argentina's right to the Falklands. Enjoy the 21st century, prepare for the tables being turned.

  15. #2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
    Thats what makes it so sad, Russia have so much potential to thrive and flourish
    I'm convinced that Russians as a nation have been so deeply scarred psychologically by centuries of Russian autocrats that they are incapable of functioning without being ruled by an autocrat. They are incapable of forming a functional civil society.

  16. #2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I'm convinced that Russians as a nation have been so deeply scarred psychologically by centuries of Russian autocrats that they are incapable of functioning without being ruled by an autocrat. They are incapable of forming a functional civil society.
    Maybe, Im more optimistic, would take a few decades for sure though

  17. #2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I'm convinced that Russians as a nation have been so deeply scarred psychologically by centuries of Russian autocrats that they are incapable of functioning without being ruled by an autocrat. They are incapable of forming a functional civil society.
    Eh I think it's more a function of the people who have money only got their money in the absence of a functional civil society therefore they'd rather accept a small risk of being purged for pissing off the dictator du jour than the definite risk of getting thrown in jail for being corrupt pieces of garbage. The analogue here is fascism being one of capitalism's immune responses to reformist movements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #2018
    Quote Originally Posted by alkyd View Post
    They tried it in the 90s with Clinton's puppet Eltsin. It didn't quite work out well for Russia.
    It's fascinating how Russians seem to not remember anymore, but Putin was literally the appointed successor of Yeltsin. Yeltsin literally made Putin. Russian's economic woes post '91 were certainly not helped by Yeltsin's incompetence but were hardly caused by him.

  19. #2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    There has to be a historical "pants on fire" joke in here somewhere...
    The more young and hip version is calling it the United States of They Ask You How You Are and You Have To Say That You're Fine, When You're Not Really Fine and You Know They Could Never Understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  20. #2020
    Quote Originally Posted by Kreuger View Post
    https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1495871407493988352

    BREAKING: Putin orders peacekeeping mission in Donetsk and Luhansk
    Ah yes, the peace keeping mission


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