1. #20241
    Quote Originally Posted by Miriamel105 View Post
    Interesting and still no surprise what a far-right conspiracy hell hole this forum is.

    And no: I don't care to get banned for that, that's typical for fascists.
    Fascists dont care about getting banned? what?

  2. #20242
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Which country invaded which one illegally while committing mass genocide proved by facts?
    Moreover, the far-right are generally the ones that love Russia. Odd for them to call them out.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #20243
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Moreover, the far-right are generally the ones that love Russia. Odd for them to call them out.
    Not really, when we remember that the "Nazi Ukrainians" were the slogan of the invasion.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  4. #20244
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Not really, when we remember that the "Nazi Ukrainians" were the slogan of the invasion.
    The far-right in the United States, at least, loves them. Trump most of all.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #20245
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The far-right in the United States, at least, loves them. Trump most of all.
    I saw Bellingcat article showing that Qanon is actually not universally pro invasion. There are voices among them calling for peace.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #20246
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I saw Bellingcat article showing that Qanon is actually not universally pro invasion. There are voices among them calling for peace.
    Qanon thinks Hillary Clinton runs a satanic pizza parlor, so I’m not going to use them as a litmus test for anything.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #20247
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Not really, when we remember that the "Nazi Ukrainians" were the slogan of the invasion.
    They understand that it is merely propaganda. Heck Ruzzia itself has a domestic "problem" with neo-nazis. That's in quotations because "secretly" they support the bastards. Forget what you know about the USSR, the Ruzzki Federation leans far-right. Who does their fighting? The ethnic minorities/poor. Who marches in their parades? The white boys from Moscow and St. Petersburg.
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2022-06-02 at 12:48 AM.

  8. #20248
    Legendary! Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    No missiles that can reach into russia

    Given that russia was very clear about this I'm not surprised.
    Biden changed is mind on this. Very good news because Russia is bluffing.

  9. #20249
    Good to see that they are getting HIMARS and MRLS finally. Need to find the threat again where someone was talking about the differences between them and the Russian systems, but it is light and day. The Ukrainians will be probably be getting the 70km rockets, which far outrange what the Russians have. In addition the US versions are far, far more accurate than the Russians one - the Russian systems are aimed by hand while the American ones use computers. And the Russians ones need loading by hand, which makes it very slow, while the American ones have built in cranes to assist loading.

    But there is talk of a lot more new stuff going the Ukrainians way as well - Biden wants to send hellfire armed Grey Eagle drones, Germany is reportedly going to send IRIS-T air defense systems, Greece is sending BMPs, Belgium seems to have had a large number of armoured self-propelled howitzers go missing, Bulgaria has sent SU-25s and more besides.

    Meanwhile Russia is having to take tanks out of Belarus' reserves to replace losses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A couple of threads on just how important Ukraine getting MRLS/HIMARS is.

    Comparing Russian and US systems.

    What Ukraine can do with them.

  10. #20250
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    Biden changed is mind on this. Very good news because Russia is bluffing.
    Not really, He's giving medium range missiles (70km/44mi), not long range missiles (300km/190mi), still good news but definitely not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post

    Meanwhile Russia is having to take tanks out of Belarus' reserves to replace losses.
    Oooh, where did you see that?

  11. #20251
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Not really, He's giving medium range missiles (70km/44mi), not long range missiles (300km/190mi), still good news but definitely not the same.
    Officially they can do 80km/49mi - unofficially it is believed they can do even further than that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post

    Oooh, where did you see that?
    Was from Ukrainian intelligence - will see if I can find it again. Grain of salt and all, but given Russian losses it isn't inconceivable.

  12. #20252
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    US should have cut the crap and given Ukraine long range ones, so they could pound Russian occupied positions from a safe and convenient distance. 70km is nice, but 300km would be the actual game changer.

    All this restraint and beating around the bush only costs more lives and more funds in the long run.

  13. #20253
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    All this restraint and beating around the bush only costs more lives and more funds in the long run.
    Sad part is...if this just keeps going on and on, they will eventually end up getting the long range ones. NATO should have just thrown gear at the Ukrainians from day one...not slowly ramping up the size of the equipment from non-lethal to lethal to anti tank to armored vehicles to tanks to artillery etc etc.

    People just keep dying in ever increasing numbers.

  14. #20254
    Btw, what happen to all that equipment once the war is over ? They did not pay for any of it ?

  15. #20255

  16. #20256
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Btw, what happen to all that equipment once the war is over ? They did not pay for any of it ?
    Funny you should ask...Interpol actually yesterday announced they were a bit worried about potential arms trafficking after the war is over. Otherwise I assume some deals will be struck and there's been some thoughts of using the frozen assets of russia for compensation. (I'm not necessarily a fan of that but only for precedent reasons.)

    Interpol does have a good point though, I don't think anyone wants to see these weapons end up in criminal hands, or worse still in criminal hands with ties to the Kremlin.

  17. #20257
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Btw, what happen to all that equipment once the war is over ? They did not pay for any of it ?
    They're paying for it by fighting Russia? That's payment enough on a world scale.

  18. #20258
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Btw, what happen to all that equipment once the war is over ? They did not pay for any of it ?
    Nor should they. All that they are being given should simply be written off as a donation.

    NATO exists to check Russian aggression and ensure the security of its members. Every penny spent aiding Ukraine goes towards the fulfillment of those strategic objectives through the erosion of Russian military capabilities.

    The myth of Russian tanks overrunning Europe has been firmly put to rest, when all this is done, the only threat from Russia should be them constantly begging for food aid.

  19. #20259
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Funny you should ask...Interpol actually yesterday announced they were a bit worried about potential arms trafficking after the war is over. Otherwise I assume some deals will be struck and there's been some thoughts of using the frozen assets of russia for compensation. (I'm not necessarily a fan of that but only for precedent reasons.)

    Interpol does have a good point though, I don't think anyone wants to see these weapons end up in criminal hands, or worse still in criminal hands with ties to the Kremlin.
    I guess I share Interpol worries. Like it or not, the corruption level in Ukraine is huge, maybe not on par with Russia' s, but still too high.

    That is also why I worry when people says that Ukraine belongs in EU. Yeah, in 20 or 30 years. Once they will have sorted their stuff.

  20. #20260
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Btw, what happen to all that equipment once the war is over ? They did not pay for any of it ?
    Most has been given, but some of the equipment is part of the Ukraine Lend-Lease act; and some of that should be given back or repaid at some time - after WWII the latest repayment was in 2006.

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