Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Corvus]

The Ukrainians are really not happy with Macron at the moment with his latest statement about not humiliating Putin.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61691816

Tell you what, Macron, why don't you appease him by giving him 20% of France?

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20% of comrades without running water are lucky. Means they not have to pay for expensive toilets and sinks.

https://archive.ph/Pd6u5

More on how the sanctions are sending Russia back 30 years. Even sinks, toilets and taps are becoming hard to get.

[PhaelixWW]

20% of comrades without running water are lucky. Means they not have to pay for expensive toilets and sinks.

https://archive.ph/Pd6u5

More on how the sanctions are sending Russia back 30 years. Even sinks, toilets and taps are becoming hard to get.

I guess those Russian soldiers who were stealing toilet seats a while back were prescient.

[Specialka]

The Ukrainians are really not happy with Macron at the moment with his latest statement about not humiliating Putin.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61691816

Tell you what, Macron, why don't you appease him by giving him 20% of France?

- - - Updated - - -

20% of comrades without running water are lucky. Means they not have to pay for expensive toilets and sinks.

https://archive.ph/Pd6u5

More on how the sanctions are sending Russia back 30 years. Even sinks, toilets and taps are becoming hard to get.

I guess you did not (as the Ukrainians) understood what Macron meant. Well, that is not surprising as you are not (as they are) the most subtle in the diplomatic field.

[Gabriel]

I guess you did not (as the Ukrainians) understood what Macron meant. Well, that is not surprising as you are not (as they are) the most subtle in the diplomatic field.

Fuck that. We should absolutely try to humiliate Putin. Maybe he will finally do the right thing and kill himself if the West laughs at him enough.

[Specialka]

Fuck that. We should absolutely try to humiliate Putin. Maybe he will finally do the right thing and kill himself if the West laughs at him enough.

Or kill a lot more people in the process. Do you have any more stupid idea or what that the best you could do ?

[zealo]

I guess you did not (as the Ukrainians) understood what Macron meant. Well, that is not surprising as you are not (as they are) the most subtle in the diplomatic field.

Fuck that so long as the war is still ongoing with active fighting.

That sort of sentiment ought to be saved for peace negotiations after a proper armistice, but absolutely not while the Russians are still trying to take and hold onto Ukrainian territory, and the Ukrainians are set on attempting to eject the Russians from their country.

[Gabriel]

Or kill a lot more people in the process. Do you have any more stupid idea or what that the best you could do ?

Well maybe all countries should just surrender unconditionally to Russia to avoid bloodshed?

[Iphie]

I guess you did not (as the Ukrainians) understood what Macron meant. Well, that is not surprising as you are not (as they are) the most subtle in the diplomatic field.

My first thought when I read that was, so he means don't repeat Versailles? Sounds sensible to me, and the, very predictable, response was exactly as expected. I don't mind giving the russians a bloody nose, but we need to guard against a sentiment of revanchism to take root.

[Dezerte]

I'm also reminded of the great peacemaker Neville Chamberlain. I think we need to keep firm and stand against Russia, but be ready to gradually drop sanctions and help Russia when they stop their aggression.

[Gabriel]

Nah. Sanctions don't drop until Putin stops breathing.

[Makabreska]

20% of comrades without running water are lucky. Means they not have to pay for expensive toilets and sinks.

https://archive.ph/Pd6u5

More on how the sanctions are sending Russia back 30 years. Even sinks, toilets and taps are becoming hard to get.

Y'all member when Shillker was bragging about that 80% running water accesses, like it was a great achievement of a developed country?

[Santti]

I'm also reminded of the great peacemaker Neville Chamberlain. I think we need to keep firm and stand against Russia, but be ready to gradually drop sanctions and help Russia when they stop their aggression.

"Peace for our time"?

[Specialka]

Fuck that so long as the war is still ongoing with active fighting.

That sort of sentiment ought to be saved for peace negotiations after a proper armistice, but absolutely not while the Russians are still trying to take and hold onto Ukrainian territory, and the Ukrainians are set on attempting to eject the Russians from their country.

There won't be an armistice. Remember ? They are not at war.

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My first thought when I read that was, so he means don't repeat Versailles? Sounds sensible to me, and the, very predictable, response was exactly as expected. I don't mind giving the russians a bloody nose, but we need to guard against a sentiment of revanchism to take root.

FINALLY, someone gets it.

[Gaidax]

Hopefully the reports coming from Severodonesk are true, because if they are Russia has thrown literally everything they had left at it and are taking massive casualties while also losing.

Hardly, here's British intelligence report on the thing.



Seems like the "Russian" strike force there are conscripts from LPR, used as cannon fodder to limit damage to Russian forces themselves.

I guess once they exhaust this resource, they will move in the actual main force.

[Dezerte]

"Peace for our time"?

Yeah...

In all seriousness I don't think appeasement is appropriate but we shouldn't go full Versailles on Russia either.

[Kaleredar]

My first thought when I read that was, so he means don't repeat Versailles? Sounds sensible to me, and the, very predictable, response was exactly as expected. I don't mind giving the russians a bloody nose, but we need to guard against a sentiment of revanchism to take root.

I mean... Russia stepped into the ring for a fight, and now they're complaining that the guy they blindsided swung around and is punching them back. To hell with their "feelings."

Germany's role in World War 1 as an inclusion due to a series of complicated allegiances and the rather crushing reparations they were saddled with is miles different from what Germany did in WW2 and what Russia is doing now.

We're not at the parallel point where the dust has settled and Russia is being saddled with reparations they can't pay so as to engender financial crisis, unrest and anger within its populace driving them to hand the reins of power to nationalistic, genocidal madman, as was the case in the interim between WW1 and WW2 in Germany.

Russia is ALREADY under the control of a nationalistic, genocidal madman who's trying to expand, testing the boundaries of what he can get away with before he's acquired enough steam to start really pushing the nations of Europe.

We're not at the end of WW1 in our little parallel, here. We're right before the start of WW2. But most countries, rightfully so, learned their lesson last time.

Would you have said "Fuck Hitler and the third reich's 'feelings,' they deserve every insult, slander, affront and hindrance we can levvy at them now, before they can become a real force to be reckoned with" in the late 1930s when Germany started annexing? 'Cuz that's what we should be saying to Putin, now.

The outstanding difference is that Putin has nuclear deterrent on his side to keep other countries from interfering more directly.

[zealo]

There won't be an armistice. Remember ? They are not at war.

What Russia chooses to call it to people with eyeballs glued to a TV back home is immaterial to things that will require negotiations with the Ukrainian government, when the war reaches a stage of actually coming to a halt.

[PhaelixWW]

Seems like the "Russian" strike force there are conscripts from LPR, used as cannon fodder to limit damage to Russian forces themselves.

Hmm, they're not "cannon fodder", they're "urban warfare fodder" which is so much worse.

[Specialka]

What Russia chooses to call it to people with eyeballs glued to a TV back home is immaterial to things that will require negotiations with the Ukrainian government, when the war reaches a stage of actually coming to a halt.

And there was no declaration of war from Russia nor Ukraine btw. So from international right point of view, I am not sure it is a "war".

[Iphie]

I mean... Russia stepped into the ring for a fight, and now they're complaining that the guy they blindsided swung around and is punching them back. To hell with their "feelings."

Germany's role in World War 1 as an inclusion due to a series of complicated allegiances and the rather crushing reparations they were saddled with is miles different from what Germany did in WW2 and what Russia is doing now.

We're not at the parallel point where the dust has settled and Russia is being saddled with reparations they can't pay so as to engender financial crisis, unrest and anger within its populace driving them to hand the reins of power to nationalistic, genocidal madman, as was the case in the interim between WW1 and WW2 in Germany.

Russia is ALREADY under the control of a nationalistic, genocidal madman who's trying to expand, testing the boundaries of what he can get away with before he's acquired enough steam to start really pushing the nations of Europe.

We're not at the end of WW1 in our little parallel, here. We're right before the start of WW2. But most countries, rightfully so, learned their lesson last time.

Would you have said "Fuck Hitler and the third reich's 'feelings,' they deserve every insult, slander, affront and hindrance we can levvy at them now, before they can become a real force to be reckoned with" in the late 1930s when Germany started annexing? 'Cuz that's what we should be saying to Putin, now.

The outstanding difference is that Putin has nuclear deterrent on his side to keep other countries from interfering more directly.

I wouldn't call the Wilhelm II very sweet and levelheaded when it came to war, so that parallel still works. My point stands though when this is over we should not let ourselves become trapped in the same mindset that led to Versailles and ultimately WWII.

I'm also not saying we should appease putin, I'm saying we need to create an environment where russia got beaten up but not humiliated in the aftermath. Which is ALSO a lesson learned from WWI.

I think Macron's words were ill timed, but in essence not incorrect: "Beat the russians, but don't humiliate them afterwards", might have been a better way of saying it.