1. #20341
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Bla bla bla bla, Turkey is significantly more important to NATO than Sweden and Finland combined. Cope.
    .
    Yeah, but only because of its geostrategical position, and this doesn't negate anything else i said. You're not in the positione to make demands, and most NATO members would rather vote you out. Too bad this isn't possible.

  2. #20342
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    You're not in the positione to make demands
    copium

    Of course they are in position to make demands, that's the whole point. If Turkey would keep saying no, then no amount of rage will make Sweden and Finland NATO members. That's how it works, no matter whether you like or not.

    And the poster you replied to is on the money - Turkey is whole heck more important to NATO, I'd even go as far as saying it's one of the few countries, among the riff raff there, that actually matters being a gateway to Europe/Middle East and Black Sea.

    So from negotiating standpoint - they sure are in a position to demand stuff.


    Now, this does not mean that Turkey will go ahead and hard block this forever, as they only want goodies and their leader wants to fluff that dick of his before the elections a year from now. So it will be negotiated and something will give.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2022-05-21 at 12:09 PM.
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  3. #20343
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    copium

    Of course they are in position to make demands, that's the whole point. If Turkey would keep saying no, then no amount of rage will make Sweden and Finland NATO members. That's how it works, no matter whether you like or not. And the poster you replied to is on the money - Turkey is whole heck more important to NATO, I'd even go as far as saying it's one of the few countries, among the riff raff there, that actually matters being a gateway to Europe/Middle East and Black Sea.

    So from negotiating standpoint - they sure are in a position to demand stuff.


    Now, this does not mean that Turkey will go ahead and hard block this forever, as they only want goodies and their leader wants to fluff that dick of his before the elections a year from now. So it will be negotiated and something will give.
    Not really. Sweden and Finland joining NATO is mere symbol politics. In case russia only looked strange all of europe would step in anway. Of course they can rage on and block this forever, but this would only lead to alienating all the other NATO members even further. But yeah, it's all the other's fault anyway, "spearheading anti-turkey efforts", lol, your government and people who support it can do this on their own. Just like Orban, Erdogan want to be Putin, but he's just a lot less significant. He's got the same playbook, just not a tenth of the power. And even though the bar is quite low, under Erdogan turkey will never make the cut to be able to join the EU.

  4. #20344
    Who's "your government", I'm not even from Turkey.

    I'm just responding to the whole nonsense of "not in position to make demands", because it's so funny. Of course they are and that's what they do.

    Why and what - that's a subjective thing, I think I myself noted that this is a mix of Turkey's interests and Erdogan's personal interests. But the objective part is that they are in position to demand and negotiate.


    /shrug

    And yes, in the end as I said 500 times - Sweden and Finland will both be in NATO. Turkey does not want to really prevent that, they want to get goodies out of it.
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  5. #20345
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Who's "your government", I'm not even from Turkey.

    I'm just responding to the whole nonsense of "not in position to make demands", because it's so funny. Of course they are and that's what they do.

    Why and what - that's a subjective thing, I think I myself noted that this is a mix of Turkey's interests and Erdogan's personal interests. But the objective part is that they are in position to demand and negotiate.


    /shrug

    And yes, in the end as I said 500 times - Sweden and Finland will both be in NATO. Turkey does not want to really prevent that, they want to get goodies out of it.
    The "your government" is directed at Kuntantee, who brought up that point, obviously.

    Sweden and Finland are both in the EU and would be defended against russian aggression anyway. So the whole point is moot. This is basically just showing the finger to Putler, and turkey wants to appease him, extort the other NATO members, and will fail to do so.
    Last edited by XDurionX; 2022-05-21 at 12:28 PM.

  6. #20346
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    The "your government" is directed at Kuntantee, who brought up that point, obviously.

    Sweden and Finland are both in the EU and would be defended against russian aggression anyway. So the whole point is moot. This is basically just showing the finger to Putler, and turkey wants to appease him, extort the other NATO members, and will fail to do so.
    Don’t mind Gaidax. His feathers get ruffled when people object to the genocide of Muslim populations.

  7. #20347
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Yeah, but only because of its geostrategical position, and this doesn't negate anything else i said. You're not in the positione to make demands, and most NATO members would rather vote you out. Too bad this isn't possible.
    Kind of lost the argument here buddy, accept it and move on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    The "your government" is directed at Kuntantee, who brought up that point, obviously.

    Sweden and Finland are both in the EU and would be defended against russian aggression anyway. So the whole point is moot. This is basically just showing the finger to Putler, and turkey wants to appease him, extort the other NATO members, and will fail to do so.
    And at this point your kind of falling to a childish argument with like "I didn't want to go to your party anyway"

  8. #20348
    Russia's army used to be Ivan Drago level of greatness. Now they are the equivalent of Glass Joe.

  9. #20349
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Bla bla bla bla, Turkey is significantly more important to NATO than Sweden and Finland combined. Cope.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What's unreasonable about extraditing PKK's leadership in Sweden?

    You have been designing your foreign policy in a manner that disregards our security concerns in the last decade, ruining the relationship between Turkey and Sweden. You have not only pissed Erdogan, you have pissed a lot of Turks. If Turkey was a democratic country and if it was for people of Turkey making this decision, we would never allow Sweden to join NATO. You are lucky that you can bribe your way in and get the protection you desperately seek.
    What's unreasonable is that Turkey wants people extradited whom they are unable to prove are actually terrorists.

    Like, just yesterday your country's ambassador here put his foot in his mouth wanting an Iranian born Kurd that is an elected member of parliament extradited.

  10. #20350
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Bla bla bla bla, Turkey is significantly more important to NATO than Sweden and Finland combined. Cope.
    The more Turkey is a thorn in NATO's side the more that is going to change. At some point Turkey's strategic position becomes not worth putting up with Erdogan for.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  11. #20351
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The more Turkey is a thorn in NATO's side the more that is going to change. At some point Turkey's strategic position becomes not worth putting up with Erdogan for.
    Because Erdogan is the Eternal God Emperor entombed in the Golden Throne and kept alive for many millennia guiding Imperium of Man.

    Erdogan will go poof in a matter of few years, same as Putin and just about anyone really. NATO is not just some friends over the beer group - it existed before Erdogan was born and will continue to exist long after he's dead. It's not its first internal argument and won't be last either.

    Nobody cares about Erdogan in the long run, but Turkey or other NATO member-states are not going anywhere - which is the idea.
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  12. #20352
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The more Turkey is a thorn in NATO's side the more that is going to change. At some point Turkey's strategic position becomes not worth putting up with Erdogan for.
    You're in luck, he's gone next year but this is beyond Erdogan. The rhetoric and the conduct will change but core objectives will not. Post-Erdogan Turkey will still demand a PKK-free Sweden.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    What's unreasonable is that Turkey wants people extradited whom they are unable to prove are actually terrorists.
    How do you know we are not able to provide proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Like, just yesterday your country's ambassador here put his foot in his mouth wanting an Iranian born Kurd that is an elected member of parliament extradited.
    That PM is not among the list that we requested to be extradited. She is not Turkish. We only ask for Turkish citizens who have ties with PKK. I am not sure what the ambassador was thinking, but Turkey does not demand non-Turks to be returned.

    Sweden has been rejecting extradition requests since forever. I did a bit of research yesterday, I have seen similar problems back in 2003-2005 period, a period that Turkey was considered a booming democracy by Europe.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2022-05-21 at 04:34 PM.

  13. #20353
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    How do you know we are not able to provide proof?
    Because you'd have done so, like the times you did when sweden extradited people for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  14. #20354
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    not sure about these putin is really sick rumors. Either wishful thinking or full death of stalin stuff going on here.
    The only thing that's genuinely confirmed since he's been open about it was a back injury caused by both an Ice Hockey incident and I think also falling off a horse once. With him being 70 and he's had them for years he's not going to be healed up from those and things like holding onto the table and leg twitches can easily be explained as trying to take the focus off the pain.

  15. #20355
    Even if the reports of various sicknesses are a wishful thinking, his days in the office are still numbered. I give him 2-3 years max and that's generous. His pals and the system will off him one way or another, he became a liability.
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  16. #20356
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Just going out on a limb here but I'm guessing Turkey doesn't want foot soldiers from Sweden.

  17. #20357
    Brewmaster Iphie's Avatar
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    Zelensky open to talks if Mariupol defenders unharmed


    During the interview, held with a Ukrainian broadcaster, Zelenskiy spoke of creating a document enshrining security guarantees for his country. Although bilateral discussions would be held with Russia, the document would be signed by “friends and partners of Ukraine, without Moscow”, he added.

    However, he warned that the precondition for resuming negotiations was that Moscow did not kill Ukrainian troops who had been defending the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol. “The most important thing for me is to save the maximum number of people and soldiers,” he said.
    There's also a bit about the call Ninistö and Erdogan had.

  18. #20358
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    So in few days we may see mass deserters.
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  19. #20359
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I'm just responding to the whole nonsense of "not in position to make demands", because it's so funny. Of course they are and that's what they do.
    An alternative would be to just shrug and not let Sweden and Finland into NATO. Just make a slew of bilateral defense pacts with them and all other NATO members.

  20. #20360
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    An alternative would be to just shrug and not let Sweden and Finland into NATO. Just make a slew of bilateral defense pacts with them and all other NATO members.
    I don't think any alternative will be needed, Sweden and Finland will be in NATO and Turkey will get some candy to.lift the opposition.
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