1. #2041
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I'd be content with just #1 right now tbh. That gas dependency is creating some very weird situations.

    Not that I don't love your entire list tho. Also add Ukraine joining NATO for the lulz
    Inb4 Shalcker decides that despite blaming Putain's rise on being economically intertwined with the West not several posts ago that any suggestion of cutting off the gravy train from the West is bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #2042
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The question that now stands open is the following; what about Odessa, Kharkiv and the rest of the regional territories of both Donetsk and Lugansk. The Ukrainians are heavily fortified in these areas and won't give them up without a fight. Mariupol on the coast of Azov nearly fell in 2014.
    Nothing about the first two (though that question is not closed, if we are honest), but the rest of the regions? That is the BIG question right now. We do not have official answer yet about the exact borders. Anything can go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  3. #2043
    Old God AntiFascistVoter's Avatar
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    Hello fellow leftists. We still need that talk about grifters dominating the online discourse.


  4. #2044
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Hello fellow leftists. We still need that talk about grifters dominating the online discourse.
    What do you mean my favorite YouTuber knows less about foreign affairs than multiple countries' intelligence communities? /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #2045
    putin has invaded two "separatist aligned" ukraine states just now

  6. #2046
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    putin has invaded two "separatist aligned" ukraine states just now
    Just say he's invaded Ukraine. Anything else is acquiescing to Putain's propaganda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  7. #2047
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    At minimum, this needs to happen:

    1) Nordstream gets the axe.
    2) Russia East Ukraine gets kicked out of SWIFT.
    3) Putain and his cronies have any and all assets held abroad either frozen or confiscated to defray the costs of #1.

    Anything less is just lip service.
    So where does Europe get its gas in the short term?

  8. #2048
    Oof, hard to look at Putin's speech and not be reminded of a certain corporal who led Germany. Naked fascism for the world to see.

    Sanctions have already started, targetting the seperatist regions. More will follow when Putin sends the troops in.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Troops have officially ordered into eastern Ukraine. It's officially an invasion under international law now.

  9. #2049
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Just say he's invaded Ukraine. Anything else is acquiescing to Putain's propaganda.
    I knew this would happen. People thought I was just spouting nonsense.

  10. #2050
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    So where does Europe get its gas in the short term?
    The US or Qatar. Or else you're effectively shifting the burden to Ukrainians to pay for your energy needs with their sovereignty (see: the US and Iraq) - which is what the kids call...*checks notes*... "a bad look".
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-02-21 at 10:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #2051
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I knew this would happen. People thought I was just spouting nonsense.
    1. You were far from the only one.
    2. You are spouting nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The US or Qatar. Or else you're effectively shifting the burden to Ukrainians to pay for your energy needs with their sovereignty, which is what the kids call "a bad look".
    You are forgetting logistics and prices. This winter was/is very painful. It will take decade at minimum to get off the Russian gas needle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  12. #2052
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I knew this would happen. People thought I was just spouting nonsense.
    This is what you always wanted.

  13. #2053
    The Lightbringer bladeXcrasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    At minimum, this needs to happen:

    1) Nordstream gets the axe.
    2) Russia East Ukraine gets kicked out of SWIFT.
    3) Putain and his cronies have any and all assets held abroad either frozen or confiscated to defray the costs of #1.

    Anything less is just lip service.
    Waiting for FIA to kick Sochi off the calendar.

  14. #2054
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The US or Qatar. Or else you're effectively shifting the burden to Ukrainians to pay for your energy needs with their sovereignty (see: the US and Iraq) - which is what the kids call...*checks notes*... "a bad look".
    Unrealistic in the short term. Germany doesn't even have the infrastructure for LNG imports.

  15. #2055
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Unrealistic in the short term. Germany doesn't even have the infrastructure for LNG imports.
    Welp, I guess that's your problem then. Figure it out, because "I oppose the invasion only insofar as such opposition personally impact me" is beyond gauche.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-02-21 at 11:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #2056
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Gonna have to figure something out, Austria is already saying Nord Stream 2 is part of the EU sanctions.
    Not bringing that one online isn't the same as not using other pipelines.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Welp, I guess that's your problem then. Figure it out, because "I oppose the invasion only insofar as such opposition personally impact me" is beyond gauche.
    Like it's any different to any other sanctions already extant on Russia (or anywhere else for that matter).

  17. #2057
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Hello fellow leftists. We still need that talk about grifters dominating the online discourse.

    Why do you believe that person is grifting and not correctly following his ideology in earnest?

  18. #2058
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    At minimum, this needs to happen:

    1) Nordstream gets the axe.
    2) Russia East Ukraine gets kicked out of SWIFT.
    3) Putain and his cronies have any and all assets held abroad either frozen or confiscated to defray the costs of #1.

    Anything less is just lip service.
    Lip service it is then.

    So far Europe doesn't even want to start drawing up sanctions before situation develops.

  19. #2059
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Yuppie wants full blown world war. This is simply what he believes will trigger it.
    this won't?

  20. #2060
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    You are forgetting logistics and prices. This winter was/is very painful. It will take decade at minimum to get off the Russian gas needle.
    Newly-built LNG capacity is apparently already booked up to 2027 at the earliest.

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