1. #20641
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Maybe if you would look at articles with less hopium you would see it differently.

    All that matters in war is that your forces are enough to crush your opposition. And so far Ukraine doesn't stand a chance even with Western support.

    For example, 18 US howitizers are drop in the bucket of thousands of artillery pieces Ukraine already uses; their fire rate never seems to reach advertised 8 rounds per minute, only getting about 4, down to 2 with prolonged shelling.

    Western hand-held launchers are plagued by battery problems - large part arrives discharged and cannot be charged at all.

    Plenty of other countries also dropped exports due to lackluster harvests/weather conditions, like India.

    If anything threatens your food security it is natural to make sure your needs are met first before sending anything abroad.
    But food supplies are cut due to the war which responsability is Russia's. And you dare ask for removal of sanctions if we want you to help. I wonder how low Russia can go on the ethic scale.

    And I also think you should read less propaganda articles. I would not call that a win when everyone has seen how weak you are on the field.

    My guess is that Putin (and Russia) is just jealous that the EU and the US won't see the Russia as the biggest opponent now that it is China.
    Last edited by Specialka; 2022-05-27 at 10:26 AM.

  2. #20642
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantique View Post
    No but you see it's very humiliating for the West to decimate the Grand Russian Armed Forces simply by handing some of its toys to the sovereign nation they're invading without even stepping foot directly in the conflict.

    Imagine the shame of being so dominant you don't even need to actively participate to win, lolololol did you overkill much *the West* ?

    /s just to be safe (:
    Yeah.. it's really weird to view this as the "west" being humiliated. I mean... the west is basically not even part of the conflict.
    It's the only reason why the Russian army wasn't completely crushed from day one onwards, considering that they mostly succeeded in their campaign due to air superiority.

    For the world at large, it's good that the west isn't "directly" involved (most likely), for Ukraine and the people/consumer in general it sucks.

    But even if Russia would suddenly win this conflict in the next 3 days, or would've won in the first 3 days of the conflict/war, I have no idea why the west should, would or can be seen as being "humiliated". Even if the worst comes to be, the west would simply start buying oil and gas from the "petrol station of the world (that is also happens to be defended by nukes)". It's not like Russia would gain anything they didn't have (and now lost) already and if Russia would go into direct conflict with the west, we all know now how it would end for them.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-05-27 at 10:31 AM.

  3. #20643
    The Guardian: Moscow says West has declared ‘total war’ on Russia

    Alright, the title is Lavrov business as usual, blah blah "the West" blah blah "total war". But look at this quote:

    The West has declared war on us, on the whole Russian world. The culture of cancelling Russia and everything connected with our country is already reaching the point of absurdity
    Russia is calling western support of Ukraine "cancel culture". Really. I feel like I'm living in a parody timeline.

  4. #20644
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    But food supplies are cut due to the war which responsability is Russia's.
    That isn't how world sees it outside of Western sphere; they are quite aware of Western hypocrisy, like West asking them to drop Russian energy purchases while still buying them yourself.

    And you dare ask for removal of sanctions if we want you to help. I wonder how low Russia can go on the ethic scale.
    If you dare to impose them then Russia certainly can dare you to remove them.

    And I also think you should read less propaganda articles. I would not call that a win when everyone has seen how weak you are on the field.
    Russia is making steady progress so far on Popasnaya, Krasniy Liman, and Severodonetsk.

    What did Ukraine gain lately?

    Does it matter to anyone if they are defeated by strong or weak military if they still get defeated?

  5. #20645
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    That isn't how world sees it outside of Western sphere; they are quite aware of Western hypocrisy, like West asking them to drop Russian energy purchases while still buying them yourself.

    If you dare to impose them then Russia certainly can dare you to remove them.

    Russia is making steady progress so far on Popasnaya, Krasniy Liman, and Severodonetsk.

    What did Ukraine gain lately?

    Does it matter to anyone if they are defeated by strong or weak military if they still get defeated?
    Ukraine is not a superpower as Russia claims to be one. If Russia was that superpower, they would have steamroll Ukraine in 3 days as it was the initial plan. And the world can also see that Russia is not a partner to whom you can trust.

  6. #20646
    At what point does "the west" go like 'fuck it they already think we declared total war let's support Ukraine with actual troops'? Also, at what point are ruSSian war crimes big enough to support Ukraine with actual troops? It's almost as if ruSSia wants to be invaded itself.

  7. #20647
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Fuck me, only a Russian could look at the giant neverending stream of limp-dicked stupidity carried out by the Russian "army" in Ukraine and see that as "humiliation" for the West.
    Don't you know? Losing about 25% of your military strength in a 3 day war that's been going for 3 months as you end up 3rd after the "Nazi" enemy and their farmers is totally humiliating for the other side.

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  8. #20648
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Ukraine is not a superpower as Russia claims to be one. If Russia was that superpower, they would have steamroll Ukraine in 3 days as it was the initial plan. And the world can also see that Russia is not a partner to whom you can trust.
    Show me where Russia declared plan to steamroll Ukraine in 3 days.

    Even US wouldn't be able to roll over Ukraine in three days without Ukrainians surrendering; Iraq took much longer, and it was smaller country.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    At what point does "the west" go like 'fuck it they already think we declared total war let's support Ukraine with actual troops'? Also, at what point are ruSSian war crimes big enough to support Ukraine with actual troops? It's almost as if ruSSia wants to be invaded itself.
    So far it seems to be "maybe if Russia uses chemical weapons/nukes".

    ...which is obviously very unlikely as chemical weapons wouldn't provide any advantages you couldn't get with non-banned thermobaric munitions.

  9. #20649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    At what point does "the west" go like 'fuck it they already think we declared total war let's support Ukraine with actual troops'? Also, at what point are ruSSian war crimes big enough to support Ukraine with actual troops?
    Not gonna happen.

    It's almost as if ruSSia wants to be invaded itself.
    You jest, but it's not far fetched as russia can then say: See! we were right!

  10. #20650
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Show me where Russia declared plan to steamroll Ukraine in 3 days.

    Even US wouldn't be able to roll over Ukraine in three days without Ukrainians surrendering; Iraq took much longer, and it was smaller country.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So far it seems to be "maybe if Russia uses chemical weapons/nukes".

    ...which is obviously very unlikely as chemical weapons wouldn't provide any advantages you couldn't get with non-banned thermobaric munitions.
    Wait, do you actually think than any country would disclose what their plans are ? Are you that stupid ? By that metrics, the US never sent anyone on the moon since they could have fake it !

    Russia spent tons of mens and equipment (including elite troops like paratroopers) into the meat grinder for nothing ? No, they tried to rush Kiev to get Zelensky, depose him, and install a puppet. irak tooks 3 weeks in and all and it was 10000 km away form the US.

  11. #20651
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    The Guardian: Moscow says West has declared ‘total war’ on Russia

    Alright, the title is Lavrov business as usual, blah blah "the West" blah blah "total war". But look at this quote:



    Russia is calling western support of Ukraine "cancel culture". Really. I feel like I'm living in a parody timeline.
    That's not even the dumbest thing the Russians have said today. Apparently the UK is on the verge of cannibalism.

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....-b2088534.html

  12. #20652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    You do realize that there is more than military victory here ? And that war is far from over, Ukrainians seems determined to fight for a very long time, so it seems that Russia is going for a Pyrrhic victory which does not seem like a victory at all.

    Plus, everyone has seen the "mighty" russian army in action, and Russian has lost a lot of standing on that front.
    Ukrainians have no other option than to fight. If they quit Russia will destroy them all. Putin's objective from the start has been to erase Ukrainians nation and people from the map and history.

  13. #20653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    That's not even the dumbest thing the Russians have said today. Apparently the UK is on the verge of cannibalism.

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....-b2088534.html
    Eh, this one is a good contender as well, given that they share a border with Ukraine:

    * Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has warned the West that supplying weapons to Ukraine capable of hitting Russian territory would be "a serious step towards unacceptable escalation", Tass news agency said.
    I'm fairly certain I know what he means but if this a literal quote then it's really poorly worded.

  14. #20654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Eh, this one is a good contender as well, given that they share a border with Ukraine:



    I'm fairly certain I know what he means but if this a literal quote then it's really poorly worded.
    Damn it, even supplying a slingshot would mean "the West" cause WW3

  15. #20655
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Wait, do you actually think than any country would disclose what their plans are ? Are you that stupid ? By that metrics, the US never sent anyone on the moon since they could have fake it !
    So "as was initial plan" is pure speculation. Or "What West expected, repurposed as 'what Russians actually wanted' ".

    Noone goes into war with just a single plan too.

    Russia spent tons of mens and equipment (including elite troops like paratroopers) into the meat grinder for nothing ? No, they tried to rush Kiev to get Zelensky, depose him, and install a puppet. irak tooks 3 weeks in and all and it was 10000 km away form the US.
    Not exactly "for nothing" - after all, that did hold Ukrainian forces in place there while Russia took Kherson, Melitopol, and surrounded Mariupol, and there were plenty of hits on Ukrainian military targets while they were there.

    But it probably hinged on somewhat different reaction from Ukrainian (and possibly Western) side that failed to materialize - as did "goodwill" withdrawal.

    But non-instant win is still a win.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Meanwhile Russian TV "Channel 1" already does reports from Melitopol / Zaporizhye about formerly repurposed to army needs factory turning back to making agricultural spare parts, as well as farmers preparing for opening of Donetsk/Luhansk/Russian markets.

    As a reminder, Russia already set those territories taken since March to use Rouble and Russian timezone, as well as simplified process of getting Russian passports there.

    And noone will care that West will not recognize that, just like West didn't recognize Crimea.

  16. #20656
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    So "as was initial plan" is pure speculation. Or "What West expected, repurposed as 'what Russians actually wanted' ".

    Noone goes into war with just a single plan too.

    Not exactly "for nothing" - after all, that did hold Ukrainian forces in place there while Russia took Kherson, Melitopol, and surrounded Mariupol, and there were plenty of hits on Ukrainian military targets while they were there.

    But it probably hinged on somewhat different reaction from Ukrainian (and possibly Western) side that failed to materialize - as did "goodwill" withdrawal.

    But non-instant win is still a win.
    Nah, Russia expected West to stay still but it did not unfold as what was expected. Now, those pussies cry everywhere that the West hates Russia (bla bla bla).

    A win where you show everyone that you are weak is not the win you think it is.

  17. #20657
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    A win where you show everyone that you are weak is not the win you think it is.
    The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

    Maybe it is you who are shown to be so weak you cannot bring Russia on it's knees no matter how hard you try despite your declared "superiority", have you thought about that?

  18. #20658
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine had suffered failure after failure while Western attempts to hurt Russian economy seem to hurt Western economies much more (and plenty of other problems that piled up in West with Covid aren't helping).

    Maybe it is you who are shown to be so weak you cannot bring Russia on it's knees no matter how hard you try despite your declared "superiority", have you thought about that?
    The facts are not going your way, unless all you drink is propaganda.

  19. #20659
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Ukraine is not a superpower as Russia claims to be one. If Russia was that superpower, they would have steamroll Ukraine in 3 days as it was the initial plan. And the world can also see that Russia is not a partner to whom you can trust.
    Anyone remember this lolololol

    "2. RIA Novosti news agency accidentally published an article, tagged with a publication date of 8AM on February 26, already celebrating a Russian victory and collapse of the Ukrainian state within an anticipated two days. It's still on their site."

    https://twitter.com/Tom_deWaal/statu...HBLx-5FUkmUR-g
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  20. #20660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    The fight isn't over and so far Ukraine Russia had suffered failure after failure
    Fixed that.

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