1. #2061
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Why do you believe that person is grifting and not correctly following his ideology in earnest?
    Because people pushing resentment ideology of that sort (i.e. endless 'critiques' of power with no actionable goals) generally do so to drive media engagement and solicit donations. If they're not grifters, they're marks. Which is equally as unflattering.

    And before you start typing some horsehit like "well all left wing ideology is a critique of power with no actionable goals" - no, most leftists do have a set of actionable goals like universal healthcare, free college, electoral reform, et cetera. I'm referring specifically to people who, as a biological woman has put it;

    The goal of resentment politics is not to improve conditions. In fact, the resentful person is full of contempt for any "morally compromised sellouts" who are trying to enact plausible reforms. They don't want victory, they don't want power, they want to endlessly "critique" power. Because for them, "critique" is an important psychological defense against feeling impotent. [Max] Scheler described it this way:

    "It is peculiar to ‘ressentiment criticism’ that it does not seriously desire that its demands be fulfilled. It does not want to cure the evil: the evil is merely a pretext for the criticism."

    As a general rule, the more radical a political community claims to be, the more likely it is to be a community of resentment. Self-styled radicals will tell you, "superficial surface reforms do not interest us. The problem must be critiqued at its root". And then the root turns out to be this universal, all-encompassing evil right? Society itself, the system, the machine. A resentment ideologue always imagines himself engaged in a kind of Satanic revolt against an omnipotent, omnipresent enemy.

    And nothing short of total revolution counts as any sort of victory whatsoever. "We have to dismantle the entire system! Burn it all down!" I guess it's pedestrian to point out that this is the revolutionary utopian equivalent of Christians awaiting the Last Judgment.

    Often the appeal of utopian ideology is similar to religion. It's not about healthcare, higher wages, relief from police violence. Those are actual goals that could be demanded, worked for, and achieved. Utopian ideology instead promises relief from some general malaise, "alienation". And so ironically it can have the same opiate effect that Marx ascribed to religion, but "release from the general anguish of human existence" is not a political goal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #2062
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    this won't?
    Why would it? We'll let them have the autonomous regions, and let them link up with Crimea, largely because we're in no position militarily to stop them. The whole of Ukraine would be too big and unnecessary for Russia to manage but a clear message sent.

    Alternative is trashing the entirety of the EU's infrastructure due to energy dependence, and crashing several nation's economies that similarly depend on Russian money, be it trade in Eastern countries, or laundering in the UK.

  3. #2063
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    this won't?
    Nope. Unless Putin's mental deterioration is much worse than feared, he won't attack the West and NATO has said there will be no troops involved.

  4. #2064
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    You are forgetting logistics and prices. This winter was/is very painful. It will take decade at minimum to get off the Russian gas needle.
    Literally didn't give a shit about my energy prices when I opposed Keystone XL, literally don't give a shit about their energy prices when I'm opposing dumping money into Putain's hands via Nordstream.

    See? Consistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #2065
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Literally didn't give a shit about my energy prices when I opposed Keystone XL, literally don't give a shit about their energy prices when I'm opposing dumping money into Putain's hands via Nordstream.

    See? Consistency.
    The problem is that not everyone can afford this consistency.

  6. #2066
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The problem is that not everyone can afford this consistency.
    No the problem is when it goes beyond price and whether you can straight up get it at all. Meanwhile Russia just keeps on selling to China.

  7. #2067
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Apperently there are troops inside Ukraine and ready to start an invasion. This will turn into WW3 quite fast with a bit of bad luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  8. #2068
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    EO just got issued sanctioning trade and investment into occupied parts of Ukraine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The problem is that not everyone can afford this consistency.
    Which is why the government exists for the purpose of socializing liabilities of that sort, habibi. Not everyone can afford rural electrification either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #2069
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    I legit hope Russia gets cut off anything Western related and i mean anything, that includes western movies, games. (WoW) anything. Make them feel the strugle of living without modern day technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  10. #2070
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post

    annnny moment now
    welp, poorly aged.

    regardless, this is either a military sized attempt at a game of chicken or Putin and the rest of the oligarchs in charge have really convinced themselves this will pan out well for them.

  11. #2071
    Turkey has come out condemning Russia's recognition of the seperatists. So much for trying to improve that relationship.

  12. #2072
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    welp, poorly aged.

    regardless, this is either a military sized attempt at a game of chicken or Putin and the rest of the oligarchs in charge have really convinced themselves this will pan out well for them.
    Judging from Putain's little redux of Mein Kampf, it's far more likely that they're trying to salvage the situation after their plans to invade under the pretext of a false flag got exposed by the fact they forgot cellphone cameras are a thing.

    He's running into the same problem all autocrats do in that every government leader being a corrupt yes-man. Which, ironically enough in a discussion of Ukraine, was also how Chernobyl happened.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-02-21 at 11:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #2073
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Turkey has come out condemning Russia's recognition of the seperatists. So much for trying to improve that relationship.
    Turkey is gonna betray NATO the moment it will lead into WW3. China will join Russia, So will Iran.
    And then we will have global war. Scary to think off, but seems most likely tbf.

    On our side, we probably have India who is gonna join NATO & America and then the usual alliance of Japan, Australia etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  14. #2074
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Hit the civilians in the separatist regions! That'll show them! It'll have them crawling back on to Ukraine's side in no time! Russia will be humiliated!

  15. #2075
    I note that Taiwan remains uninvaded. What happened to the simultaneous invasion we were promised?

  16. #2076
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Turkey is gonna betray NATO the moment it will lead into WW3. China will join Russia, So will Iran.
    And then we will have global war. Scary to think off, but seems most likely tbf.

    On our side, we probably have India who is gonna join NATO & America and then the usual alliance of Japan, Australia etc.
    Lol, Ukraine is not going to devolve into a WW. Not even close.

    And I doubt China is all that interested, either way. They will throw some words, but they are no friends of Russia.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  17. #2077
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Hit the civilians in the separatist regions! That'll show them! It'll have them crawling back on to Ukraine's side in no time! Russia will be humiliated!
    Missing entirely that the point of it is to make occupying those regions a financial liability for Russia East Ukraine by precluding foreign investment to fund policing and infrastructure.

    Once again, the intelligence community does in fact know more about foreign affairs than your favorite YouTuber.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #2078
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Lol, Ukraine is not going to devolve into a WW. Not even close.
    Wasn't the first steps before WW2 with Germany being told not to invade Poland? That was basically the line that got drawn and they still did it and it turned into WW2? How will this not lead into WW3? This is basically a repeat of back then. Which is scary to look at.

    Not only that, now we have nukes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  19. #2079
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Judging from Putain's little redux of Mein Kampf, it's far more likely that they're trying to salvage the situation after their plans to invade under the pretext of a false flag got exposed by the fact they forgot cellphone cameras are a thing.
    so... they're really going to march on Kiev or more posturing in regions that won't put up a fuss over Russian soldiers running around? because if it's the former then I struggle to see how a hot war with the rest of Europe and the US isn't going to devastate what little is left of Russia's economy. or they really think NATO/Biden will whiff and allow that to happen.

    because from a US perspective the desire to get into another war is... shockingly at an all time low.

  20. #2080
    Shocking that they didn't have anything like that already.

    Which is why the government exists for the purpose of socializing liabilities of that sort, habibi. Not everyone can afford rural electrification either.
    You're asking for governments to produce natural gas out of thin air. There are limits to extent damage can be "socialized" - especially with downstream effects like fertilizer production and associated food price increases.

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