Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Corvus]

"The famine will start now and they will lift the sanctions and be friends with us, because they will realize that it's impossible not to be friends with us,"

https://twitter.com/berlin_bridge/st...17133349961728

Yeah, no, I think it is quite easy not be friends with a nation that carries out genocide on its neighbours.

Yup they are admitting using famine as a weapon despite what some apologists here were trying to claim otherwise.

[Pann]

Yup they are admitting using famine as a weapon despite what some apologists here were trying to claim otherwise.

Yeah. It really is desperately sad to read about and see the human suffering brought upon the world to satisfy the ego of aging dictator.

[YUPPIE]

as I said, we have to fight them over the food blockade.

The Pentagon even says so.

Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, specifically.

[PhaelixWW]

as I said, we have to fight them over the food blockade.

The Pentagon even says so.

Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, specifically.

Milley says using military to end Russian blockade would be ‘high risk’

“You can take the grain out by truck or train, or you can take it out by sea. Right now, the sea lanes are blocked by mines and the Russian navy. In order to open up those sea lanes would require a very significant military effort,” Milley said. If policymakers opted for it, “it would be a high-risk military operation that would require significant levels of effort.”

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

it's just really impolite to be having an extensive, serious conversation and then abruptly segue to mocking someone merely because their perception of time is different.

Then inform us ignorant peasants exactly how you perceive mid June as "2022 is almost over"...

Today is the 171st day of the year. There are 194 days remaining. From an objective mathematical standpoint...there is more of the year to come than has already passed.

If you want a more visual aid:


It's like looking at this picture and saying that the gas tank is almost empty.

Look at the time:



It's almost midnight

[Gorsameth]

Yeah, the same six or seven people whinging at Yuppie must generated at least three or four pence for the site over the past few months!

Seriously if he bothers any of you that much put him on ignore.

he is on ignore, that doesn't stop the spam from his posts and the people having to reply to tell him how stupid he is being.

[Corvus]

Ukraine has hit a number of oil rigs that Russia stole in 2014 according to both Ukrainian and Russian sources. Russia of course had a fit and screamed they would get revenge - and targeted a food warehouse in Odessa in response.

- - - Updated - - -

BBC report on Russian volunteers fighting in Ukraine. Can we say manpower problems? Just 3-7 days training in some cases, no training in tactics and many are over 45. The primary assault forces are now Wagner and volunteer MoD and Rosgvardia units. Of the 155 identified volunteers killed in Ukraine, 57% are over 40 and 25% are over 50.

[YUPPIE]

A few pages ago, there was a conversation about Russia torturing and executing some American/British volunteers, and about how that's wrong and how we should respond right? Well only a few hours ago, Russia had this to say in response.

Kremlin press secretary Dmitry Peskov said Monday that the Geneva Conventions — a series of agreements on, among other things, international standards for the treatment of people captured during war — would not apply to the two Americans believed to have been captured by Russian or pro-Russian forces in Ukraine in recent weeks. Peskov's comments come days after Russian media released video appearing to show the two men, 39-year-old Alexander Drueke and 27-year-old Andy Huynh.

Peskov told NBC News' Keir Simmons that he considers the two men to be "soldiers of fortune" who were not enlisted in the Ukrainian army — which means, he said, that Russia does not believe they are protected under the Geneva Conventions. When pressed on whether Russia knows for sure that the two men were not members of the Ukrainian military, Peskov said the matter will be "investigated in due course."

He also alleged the two men, as a result of their supposed status as mercenaries, were involved in "illegal activity," including firing on and shelling members of Russia's military.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine...a-conventions/

[Mihalik]

stuff, stupid as usual.

Mercenaries are not covered by the Geneva Convention. They are explicitly excluded. Various nations do take foreign nationals into their ranks, including France, the UK, Spain and yes, the US.

But they do so as explicit enlistees, as members of their armed forces.

Ukraine has such a unit specifically created for this purpose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...nse_of_Ukraine

Here's the problem. This unit doesn't accept everyone and anyone. They typically take either veterans or people who have special skills such as medics, people with backgrounds in operating and maintaining the western gear they've been getting etc, but are only accepted after they pass background checks, physical and psychological filtering etc.

There are a whole bunch of people from other countries floating around in Ukraine who either haven't been accepted into that unit or haven't yet been accepted into that unit and didn't want to wait so joined some random militia which might be affiliated to the Ukrainian government and even supplied and armed by it, but isn't part of the Ukrainian military per say. Under international law those people technically are in fact mercenaries.

Even if they were members of the Ukrainian military whether Russia is willing to recognize that or not is an entirely different question as whether even Russia is willing to recognize Ukraine as a sovereign state or not is in question.

They won't execute them. But they will sure as shit milk them for propaganda purposes. Because people like you exist. The Russians will parade them on TV and you'll write 89542956952659652 posts about it and swing between calling for NOOOKLEAR WAR over it and COMPLETE SURRENDER. You are giving the Russians exactly what they so desperately want. They want idiots in the west to call for escalation (which won't come to pass) so they can show that to Russians at home and legitimize this conflict, or idiots in the west who will call for appeasement to save those people. It doesn't matter to the Russians, either way is a propaganda coup.

What needs happen here is for you and people like you to shut up and let adults deal with this. What adults will do at diplomatic levels is let Russians know that 1. they won't get anything in exchange for these people and 2. if they kill them we will retaliate either by giving the Ukrainians even bigger guns or putting on more sanctions, start literally expropriating Russian assets abroad etc 3. float the possibility of prisoner exchanges and nothing else.

[Corvus]

The fascist Simonyan is showing far too much glee at Russia causing a famine to try and force others to surrender Ukraine to Russia.

[Edge-]

I love her choice of words. "The world will be our friends otherwise we will intentionally cause as much global harm and suffering as possible."

It's genuinely hard not to view basically the entirety of the leadership/ruling class of Russia as actual sociopaths. Like, across the board, unless they're fleeing the country to speak out against it.

I continue to hold my position of, "Find ways to make Russia globally irrelevant and sanction them back to the stone age."

[Corvus]

They aren't even hiding what they are trying to do either.

It is also rather telling that she is admitting that causing a famine is their only hope of victory too.

[Kaleredar]

I love her choice of words. "The world will be our friends otherwise we will intentionally cause as much global harm and suffering as possible."

It's genuinely hard not to view basically the entirety of the leadership/ruling class of Russia as actual sociopaths. Like, across the board, unless they're fleeing the country to speak out against it.

I continue to hold my position of, "Find ways to make Russia globally irrelevant and sanction them back to the stone age."

It would probably be worth it for the US to ramp up production on food to export overseas to help offset any famine caused by Russia blockading Ukraine. The US farm industry is already heavily subsidized by the government, and there are measures that pay farmers to leave land fallow. Some of those are for environmental concerns, but global starvation is a pretty pressing prospect and might, just like expanded oil production, be a necessity in the short-term until Russia lays off this nonsensical expansionist concept of theirs. (Or, more accurately, is so heavily boxed in by the EU/NATO and financially broken that they dare not try it again)

Would probably be a good long-term investment in world stability... and, you know, making some nice friends overseas.

[Mihalik]

I continue to hold my position of, "Find ways to make Russia globally irrelevant and sanction them back to the stone age."

Here's the thing.

Russia is a completely rogue state. Having the world rely on them on anything beyond funny dashcam footage is a global security risk.

The other issue is with what Russia is doing to Ukraine. Ukraine is a sensible and reliable producer that wants to keep it's obligations but is being prevented from doing so by Russia.

The world needs to move away from anything Russia can provide and replace it with things coming from sane sources, and as part of shouldering our share in this conflict, western nations need to temporarily pick up the gap in Ukrainian output.

Once this war is over and Ukraine is stabilized, we need to provide Ukraine with the necessary security guarantees that this won't happen again in the future, either via NATO or EU membership... preferably both and integration into European logistics chains to limit their exposure to Russian blockades.

And seriously....fuck Russia.

[YUPPIE]

off the war talk (relatively speaking) for a moment:

Something people don't often talk about but need to address is Ukraine and trust if they come out on top from this conflict. There are a lot of eyebrows being raised over them joining the EU or hell, *NATO* and similar defense pacts because they were only a rug under Russia in terms of corruption before all this began.

How do we know they don't devolve back into that? It is important to consider because of the amount of faith and money being poured into Ukraine globally.

[Mihalik]

How do we know they don't devolve back into that? It is important to consider because of the amount of faith and money being poured into Ukraine globally.

1. Much of the endemic corruption was in fact deeply tied to Russia and the Russian influence. That's gone.

2. Institutional reforms are possible. Most Eastern European countries including the most successful ones like the Baltics and Poland have escaped the same endemic corruption that plagues Russia.

The problem is with the social and political model Russia offers. Once you break away from that, reform is possible. Even tho sometimes said reforms can fail...see Hungary.

There's absolutely no reason to think tho that Ukraine isn't capable of reform.

Reminder, Ukraine is a country that was on the brink of military collapse in 2014 and the Russians didn't even really put much weight into it. In 8 years that country has done more reform than others have done in decades.

Also the people of Ukraine have now demonstrated a level of dedication, civic consciousness, resilience and adaptability that is unparalleled in recent history. No reason to think they won't stick to it.

[YUPPIE]

we will see if they come out on top. Remember they're up against a nuclear power for if Russia is evicted off the boots.

There's a long way to go against a nation and dictator that said it will never surrender

[Ihavewaffles]

Mon, June 20, 2022:
June 20 (Reuters) - Russia on Monday demanded that Lithuania immediately lift a ban on the transit of some goods to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad.

The Russian foreign ministry told the Lithuanian envoy in Moscow that if cargo transit between the Kaliningrad region and the rest of Russia through Lithuania was not restored, Moscow would respond to protect its interests.

Lithuanian authorities banned the transit of goods which are sanctioned by the European Union across its territory, which includes the only rail route between mainland Russia and the Kaliningrad exclave on the Baltic Sea. Banned goods include coal, metals, construction materials and advanced technology. (Reporting by Reuters; editing by Guy Faulconbridge)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russi...102555806.html

Preventing a country to access its own territory is an offensive move, and thus not covered by nato art.5

This would be like canada complaining about american wars n decide to block usa access to alaska.

Maybe lithuania got someone like you there, yuppie, making decisions? Ww3 should be avoided, not move towards.

[Corvus]

Lithuania is simply enforcing eu sanctions on goods through its territory. Kaliningrad is still accessible via sea or air. Any actions by Russia against it would invoke article 5.

[Ihavewaffles]

Lithuania is simply enforcing eu sanctions on goods through its territory. Kaliningrad is still accessible via sea or air. Any actions by Russia against it would invoke article 5.

Goods that 1. are not part of sanctions. 2. headed to kaliningrad Rus territory n not eu, are for that reason too not part of sanctions.
This would be like Canada saying US can't deliver goods to alaska, whether canada itself wants goods for itself or not, is a seperate issue.

Would not trigger art.5