1. #21101
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    I wonder, will anything change diplomatically now that Putin has all but admitted that this is a war of conquest? Not that there was ever any doubt, but there's a marked difference between flimsy alternate justifications and coming clean about his intentions for eastern Europe.
    A wild guess says no. No difference. It was pretty obvious from the start, that all the talk of NATO or Ukrainian Nazis were just flimsy attempts to bring some form of legitimacy to this invasion. And yeah, they appear to have dropped those excuses altogether in favor of being honest for change; that this is just Imperialism, and bugger all else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  2. #21102
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real2016 View Post
    Yes. Know history.
    Kiev is hundreds of years older than Moscow.
    Putin khuliyo

  3. #21103
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    A wild guess says no. No difference. It was pretty obvious from the start, that all the talk of NATO or Ukrainian Nazis were just flimsy attempts to bring some form of legitimacy to this invasion. And yeah, they appear to have dropped those excuses altogether in favor of being honest for change; that this is just Imperialism, and bugger all else.
    Looking at it through the lens of Imperialism, that makes this invasion even more disastrous. They had designs on so much more than Ukraine but ran into a brick wall on the very first step. The notion that they believed that they could take not only Ukraine, but move on to other nations to "restore Russian lands" seems pretty ridiculous now.

  4. #21104
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Kiev is hundreds of years older than Moscow.
    ruSSians are constantly pissed off that their country is shit while their neighbors prosper. They could try doing something about their own country but I guess that's just too much effort.

  5. #21105
    Epic! Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    A wild guess says no. No difference. It was pretty obvious from the start, that all the talk of NATO or Ukrainian Nazis were just flimsy attempts to bring some form of legitimacy to this invasion. And yeah, they appear to have dropped those excuses altogether in favor of being honest for change; that this is just Imperialism, and bugger all else.
    Well, it *might* run into a bit more resistance in russia itself, it's one thing to fight against the Big Bad, and quite another to go on conquest...Who am I kidding, it won't change much I wager until at least putin is gone.

  6. #21106
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Well, it *might* run into a bit more resistance in russia itself, it's one thing to fight against the Big Bad, and quite another to go on conquest...Who am I kidding, it won't change much I wager until at least putin is gone.
    Ah, true. Wasn't considering what it might mean in Russia itself. Putin might face more resistance for it, but I'm guessing any increase is going to be minimal. Russia is always the victim, with it's Russia Under Siege mentality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  7. #21107
    We’re almost out of ammunition and relying on western arms, says Ukraine
    Ukraine’s deputy head of military intelligence has said Ukraine is losing against Russia on the frontlines and is now almost solely reliant on weapons from the west to keep Russia at bay.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...droidApp_Other

    How does this war end?

  8. #21108
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    We’re almost out of ammunition and relying on western arms, says Ukraine


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...droidApp_Other

    How does this war end?
    This you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    History lesson for the younger folks in here: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...nap-story.html

    NATO should stop expansion, Russia should withdraw from Ukraine and everyone is a winner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    The issue here can be summarized as:
    Russia: Please no more NATO expansion, we're afraid.
    NATO: Stfu, we will do as we please.


    Keep in mind ladies and gents, that Russia has tried joining NATO in the past, and got declined in more than one occasion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Russia will be fine dude, don't worry about them. And those silly 18 years predictions are made by world's topmost orgs with a proven history of predicting shit right, not random dudes in some wow forums.

    Let's not derail the thread anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Russia is a major military power in every sense. Not a single country in Europe stands a chance against them and even if multiple EU countries gank up, still the results will be inconclusive.

    From the other hand, Russia against NATO is another story. NATO has the upper hand in every domain and both sides know that.

    I don't believe Russia is seeking a confrontation with anyone. They just see NATO as an existential threat and most likely they are paranoid about it, in a sense.

    What makes me wonder, is that the current politics of the west when it comes to Russia, is basically pushing them in the hands of China, which is a very, very, bad thing for the western way of living.

    In my opinion Russia should be engaged in a positive way, and even make allies of them at some point in time (when their government and society is ready). I know that this won't happen, but secretly i do have hopes (for them and every other country tbh)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    The problem from what I am understanding, is not Ukraine, rather NATO. Russia warned yesterday, that any further expansion to the east will be met by military force.

    I guess this is their red line, and they've made it clear. My guesstimate is that EU countries will hold back NATO/US, at least during the winter. If shit go south, even in the most tiny way possible, energy price will 2x / 3x in no time.
    Your predictions have not been very successful and your alignment in this matter is clear for anyone unfamiliar with you. And your claims have been largely untrue.

    How this war ends? With Russia crippled, shamed and sent back to 1800s in all negative senses of the number.

    Russia is so afraid of NATO they genocide civilians, rape babies and then cry when people fight back. Maybe there's a reason countries seek NATO...Yeah, go complain that "NATO expands" when it only expands as Russia murders innocents - expanding by the possible target countries own will and mandate.

    Thank goodness for NATO, the defensive alliance to hold back against Russian goal of murdering everyone not russian and subjugating less fortunate people from countries that have no defensive alliance to back them up...
    Last edited by Saradain; 2022-06-10 at 01:15 PM.

  9. #21109
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    We need to amp up deliveries to Ukraine if we want them to win this shit. It's hard to fight off an invader if you don't have any god damn ammo...

  10. #21110
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    It's hard to fight off an invader if you don't have any god damn ammo...
    Of there's a way Ukraine will find it.

  11. #21111
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    This you?

    Your predictions have not been very successful and your alignment in this matter is clear for anyone unfamiliar with you. And your claims have been largely untrue.

    How this war ends? With Russia crippled, shamed and sent back to 1800s in all negative senses of the number.

    Russia is so afraid of NATO they genocide civilians, rape babies and then cry when people fight back. Maybe there's a reason countries seek NATO...Yeah, go complain that "NATO expands" when it only expands as Russia murders innocents - expanding by the possible target countries own will and mandate.

    Thank goodness for NATO, the defensive alliance to hold back against Russian goal of murdering everyone not russian and subjugating less fortunate people from countries that have no defensive alliance to back them up...
    Usually I don't start conversations with people that don't know how to have one. These forums have gone to poop since Skroe and Kell left, very boring and uneducated discussions happening nowadays.

    But just to take the bait, I'll reply to you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    This you?

    Your predictions have not been very successful and your alignment in this matter is clear for anyone unfamiliar with you. And your claims have been largely untrue.
    1. If Russia wasn't a major military power, US / UK will have started the bombing already as they have done (and still do) at so many other countries. All that I've read in this war, is "US didn't proceed with a test of Minuteman 3 to not provoke Russia", "US won't deliver highly lethal equipment (Like the HIMARS extra-long-range missiles) to not provoke Russia", "Unguided 255mm munitions for the artillery to not provoke Russia" etc.
    2. Russia currently is fighting against all chances and not only has managed to grab 20% of a foreign country, but also: Is not respecting the 3x attacking/defending rule-ratio, is against foreign mercenaries, NATO's weapons, real time intelligence etc. I can only think of a handful of nations that are capable of doing this (and yes, UK isn't one of them). Russia is doing extremely small gains, but gains nevertheless, and they haven't even mobilized yet...
    3. Russia has been warning us of such war for quite some time now and even tried to make the US and NATO to sign legal assurances to avoid this war. Even Merkel said publicly that she blocked Ukraine's ascension to NATO to avoid this freaking pointless war.
    4. Yes, their main concern is NATO, yes they are paranoid, NO this DOESN'T justify their war. However, I'll ask you this: What would happen if Ireland or Scotland tried to join CSTO and put some Russian Iskanders in reach of British cities? What would Britain do to them? What would the US do to Canada or Mexico if they tried that? No need to answer this, because we all know how it will end for those nations (hint: bombed in the 19th century). Is it fair that one country can dictate the desire of another? Hell no. Thinking that nothing will happen is pure romantism.
    5. I can go on and on, but I am bored.

    My question is legit: How does this shity situation stops?, and I asked it out of pure interest to see everyone’s opinion.

    We see that sanctions did minimal to deter them:

    - Russian economy is actually not doing as bad as EU / US / NATO wished to. This is due to the increased price of hydrocarbons. Also, China and India are buying oil in record amounts. In essence, Russia was condemned and has sanctions from a 20% of the total global population... the rest 80% is still doing business with them.
    - Russia, as we speak, is building a new pipeline to China. That means that if EU for any stupid reason decides to sanction their gas, they will just sell more to China.

    Sanctions to be effective, we need China, India and other major countries to join them.


    Military aid works, but it wont stop the war in the form and magnitude that is given to Ukraine today. We see Russians gaining ground, slowly, but steadily at least in the Dombas region. Ukraine would need:
    1. Aircraft
    2. A/A weapons
    3. Heavy artillery with advanced munitions
    4. Helicopters
    5. Tanks

    to name a few, in VAST AMOUNTS in order to stop them and even more if they want to retake their land back. Another option, is a direct military involvement of NATO countries, meaning boots on the ground of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of NATO troops (assuming that Russia will go into full mobilization), and this will lead most probably to WW3.


    Right now, we as European citizens, are feeling a big hit in our financial situation because of inflation and the war. I feel that this war can only go well for Ukraine, if they gain whatever they are trying before December. If the situation continues more than that (which Russia is more than capable of prolonging this for years) we will be looking at ridiculous energy prices, leading to more inflation, leading to more social unrest, leading to the fall of governments. I am pretty sure Putin knows and bets on this.

    And thus, my question: Realistically speaking, how can we, as NATO-EU-US, help to end this war?

  12. #21112
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    And thus, my question: Realistically speaking, how can we, as NATO-EU-US, help to end this war?
    Kill every Ruskie Ork that has crossed the border.

  13. #21113
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    And thus, my question: Realistically speaking, how can we, as NATO-EU-US, help to end this war?
    Help Ukraine kill Russians until Russia goes home.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #21114
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    And thus, my question: Realistically speaking, how can we, as NATO-EU-US, help to end this war?
    Give Ukraine what they need to kill many ruZZian fascist orcs so the rest will give up and go back home. There will be no scenario where ruZZia will be appeased anymore. It will be a shitty pariah state for possibly decades to come.
    Last edited by zorkuus; 2022-06-10 at 02:49 PM.

  15. #21115
    The Lightbringer Hansworst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    2. Russia currently is fighting against all chances and not only has managed to grab 20% of a foreign country, but also: Is not respecting the 3x attacking/defending rule-ratio, is against foreign mercenaries, NATO's weapons, real time intelligence etc. I can only think of a handful of nations that are capable of doing this (and yes, UK isn't one of them). Russia is doing extremely small gains, but gains nevertheless, and they haven't even mobilized yet...

    4. Yes, their main concern is NATO, yes they are paranoid, NO this DOESN'T justify their war. However, I'll ask you this: What would happen if Ireland or Scotland tried to join CSTO and put some Russian Iskanders in reach of British cities? What would Britain do to them? What would the US do to Canada or Mexico if they tried that? No need to answer this, because we all know how it will end for those nations (hint: bombed in the 19th century). Is it fair that one country can dictate the desire of another? Hell no. Thinking that nothing will happen is pure romantism.

    And thus, my question: Realistically speaking, how can we, as NATO-EU-US, help to end this war?
    2. They captured the 20% that was already in conflict since 2014, with the rebels backed by Russia. What an achievement.

    4. Scotland won't leave NATO. Even if they did, just look what happened after the Cuban missile crisis. Sanction and boycott them to the previous century

    And an answer to your final question: they've will keep supplying Ukraine. That's all they can do. Because no matter how hard Russia screams, this is not a NATO-Russia conflict.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  16. #21116
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Usually I don't start conversations with people that don't know how to have one. These forums have gone to poop since Skroe and Kell left, very boring and uneducated discussions happening nowadays.

    But just to take the bait, I'll reply to you:



    1. If Russia wasn't a major military power, US / UK will have started the bombing already as they have done (and still do) at so many other countries. All that I've read in this war, is "US didn't proceed with a test of Minuteman 3 to not provoke Russia", "US won't deliver highly lethal equipment (Like the HIMARS extra-long-range missiles) to not provoke Russia", "Unguided 255mm munitions for the artillery to not provoke Russia" etc.
    2. Russia currently is fighting against all chances and not only has managed to grab 20% of a foreign country, but also: Is not respecting the 3x attacking/defending rule-ratio, is against foreign mercenaries, NATO's weapons, real time intelligence etc. I can only think of a handful of nations that are capable of doing this (and yes, UK isn't one of them). Russia is doing extremely small gains, but gains nevertheless, and they haven't even mobilized yet...
    3. Russia has been warning us of such war for quite some time now and even tried to make the US and NATO to sign legal assurances to avoid this war. Even Merkel said publicly that she blocked Ukraine's ascension to NATO to avoid this freaking pointless war.
    4. Yes, their main concern is NATO, yes they are paranoid, NO this DOESN'T justify their war. However, I'll ask you this: What would happen if Ireland or Scotland tried to join CSTO and put some Russian Iskanders in reach of British cities? What would Britain do to them? What would the US do to Canada or Mexico if they tried that? No need to answer this, because we all know how it will end for those nations (hint: bombed in the 19th century). Is it fair that one country can dictate the desire of another? Hell no. Thinking that nothing will happen is pure romantism.
    5. I can go on and on, but I am bored.

    My question is legit: How does this shity situation stops?, and I asked it out of pure interest to see everyone’s opinion.
    1) US and UK hardly have a reason or a goal to just start murdering civilians in Russia. Neither do any other civilized country. Why would they? Only Russia and China are countries constantly demanding more, invading to kill, not "liberate" as per propaganda. You are not entirely wrong though, Russia has the manpower (albeit with shit quality equipment) and they always loved the tactic of overwhelming the opponent with meat shields until the target collapses. But now we truly have seen that it is all they got - manpower that they have to force to fight, hunt down in their cities to conscript them - and deny their soldier status on death to avoid paying now-son-less mothers. Military might allright...

    2) Any gains Russia gets, is easy when you bombard the shit out of civilians while same time calling them military targets - just annihilate any life in your way and you can just walk to get gains - holding onto them has been incredibly difficult for orcs with poor quality equipment and morale as we keep seeing with Ukraine re-gaining the lost areas as equipment flows in.

    3) Russia can warn as much as they want, they have no legal claims to stop people from seeking safety from their murdering ways, nor do they get a say on how sovereign countries act in defense. Russian modus operandi has always been about faking casus belli, invading, raping-murdering (not necessarily in that order) and then claiming victory over defenseless targets, disguising it as a righteous war of liberation while oppressing and subjugating the very people they claimed to save. Saying otherwise is plain trolling.

    4) NATO is only a concern for Russia because that means they would not be able to genocide their way to an empire of old - they after all cannot win against a modern opponent. Russia needs defenseless puppet states as buffer, NATO exists to stop Russia and we have all seen why it is necessary to exist. Without NATO, Russia would simply attempt to roll over entire Europe, throwing false casus bellis around and not stopping until every single european is dead or enslaved. NATO for the 100th time is not an expanding entity, sovereign countries can apply to NATO without being any threats to Russia. NATO will not invade Russia unless Russia does it first. This horse has died many times over and still being beaten endlessly by pro-russian trolls on this forum.

    If you're gonna call me out on baiting you, at least realize I can show your post history for all to see each and every time to see how blatantly you have misinformed other posters past few months. This war is on Russia and Russia only - it will stop when the orcs fuck off - or die out. Latter option may take a while but the world will rejoice in each and every rotting orc corpse.

  17. #21117
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Usually I don't start conversations with people that don't know how to have one. These forums have gone to poop since Skroe and Kell left, very boring and uneducated discussions happening nowadays.

    But just to take the bait, I'll reply to you:



    1. If Russia wasn't a major military power, US / UK will have started the bombing already as they have done (and still do) at so many other countries. All that I've read in this war, is "US didn't proceed with a test of Minuteman 3 to not provoke Russia", "US won't deliver highly lethal equipment (Like the HIMARS extra-long-range missiles) to not provoke Russia", "Unguided 255mm munitions for the artillery to not provoke Russia" etc.
    2. Russia currently is fighting against all chances and not only has managed to grab 20% of a foreign country, but also: Is not respecting the 3x attacking/defending rule-ratio, is against foreign mercenaries, NATO's weapons, real time intelligence etc. I can only think of a handful of nations that are capable of doing this (and yes, UK isn't one of them). Russia is doing extremely small gains, but gains nevertheless, and they haven't even mobilized yet...
    3. Russia has been warning us of such war for quite some time now and even tried to make the US and NATO to sign legal assurances to avoid this war. Even Merkel said publicly that she blocked Ukraine's ascension to NATO to avoid this freaking pointless war.
    4. Yes, their main concern is NATO, yes they are paranoid, NO this DOESN'T justify their war. However, I'll ask you this: What would happen if Ireland or Scotland tried to join CSTO and put some Russian Iskanders in reach of British cities? What would Britain do to them? What would the US do to Canada or Mexico if they tried that? No need to answer this, because we all know how it will end for those nations (hint: bombed in the 19th century). Is it fair that one country can dictate the desire of another? Hell no. Thinking that nothing will happen is pure romantism.
    5. I can go on and on, but I am bored.

    My question is legit: How does this shity situation stops?, and I asked it out of pure interest to see everyone’s opinion.

    We see that sanctions did minimal to deter them:

    - Russian economy is actually not doing as bad as EU / US / NATO wished to. This is due to the increased price of hydrocarbons. Also, China and India are buying oil in record amounts. In essence, Russia was condemned and has sanctions from a 20% of the total global population... the rest 80% is still doing business with them.
    - Russia, as we speak, is building a new pipeline to China. That means that if EU for any stupid reason decides to sanction their gas, they will just sell more to China.

    Sanctions to be effective, we need China, India and other major countries to join them.


    Military aid works, but it wont stop the war in the form and magnitude that is given to Ukraine today. We see Russians gaining ground, slowly, but steadily at least in the Dombas region. Ukraine would need:
    1. Aircraft
    2. A/A weapons
    3. Heavy artillery with advanced munitions
    4. Helicopters
    5. Tanks

    to name a few, in VAST AMOUNTS in order to stop them and even more if they want to retake their land back. Another option, is a direct military involvement of NATO countries, meaning boots on the ground of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of NATO troops (assuming that Russia will go into full mobilization), and this will lead most probably to WW3.


    Right now, we as European citizens, are feeling a big hit in our financial situation because of inflation and the war. I feel that this war can only go well for Ukraine, if they gain whatever they are trying before December. If the situation continues more than that (which Russia is more than capable of prolonging this for years) we will be looking at ridiculous energy prices, leading to more inflation, leading to more social unrest, leading to the fall of governments. I am pretty sure Putin knows and bets on this.

    And thus, my question: Realistically speaking, how can we, as NATO-EU-US, help to end this war?
    Give Ukraine enough weapons and ammo that they can keep russian grave diggers well fed for years to come.

  18. #21118
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Give Ukraine enough weapons and ammo that they can keep russian grave diggers well fed for years to come.
    Yeah give them weapons so the war ends, but I hope this war doesn't last for years.

    Sure, the Russian grave diggers are busy . . . but so are the Ukrainian grave diggers.
    Putin khuliyo

  19. #21119
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Yeah give them weapons so the war ends, but I hope this war doesn't last for years.

    Sure, the Russian grave diggers are busy . . . but so are the Ukrainian grave diggers.
    This war will only end when Russia is blasted out. Their goal is complete genocide of Ukrainian people, so any compromise solution will just give Russia time to regroup for the next round.

  20. #21120
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Yeah give them weapons so the war ends, but I hope this war doesn't last for years.

    Sure, the Russian grave diggers are busy . . . but so are the Ukrainian grave diggers.
    Russia does not regard Ukraine as a sovereign nation with the right to exist. This is going to last for quite a while yet.

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