1. #2101
    The Lightbringer uuuhname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Hello fellow leftists. We still need that talk about grifters dominating the online discourse.

    oh woah, such a grifter that he recognizes when he made a mistake and corrected himself. so deceptive, very untoward.

  2. #2102
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Wasn't the first steps before WW2 with Germany being told not to invade Poland? That was basically the line that got drawn and they still did it and it turned into WW2? How will this not lead into WW3? This is basically a repeat of back then. Which is scary to look at.

    Not only that, now we have nukes.
    A world war? For who?

    The US might think it controls all the members of NATO but it's the only that's actually trying to fight. Maybe the UK too. No one is going trying to find a fight over Ukraine or be a part of the US's foreign policy no matter how much but guys, it's Russia! complaining comes out of the WH.

    WW2 blew up not because Germany and Japan were annexing a bunch of people, it was the genocide. Even then North America tried to put to blinders on until Japan tried to bluff the US out of the war.

    Know why there hasn't been a World War since? Because the nations capable of carving out empires now have nukes and no one nation with nukes is trying to directly fight another nation with nukes. Not worth it. Despite the competition of egos, you need multiple nations to start a world war, and people don't give that much about Ukraine. It definitely isn't worth a nuclear standoff. Maybe if certain countries didn't spend decades destabilizing other countries in the same manner as Russia is doing with Ukraine we could find some moral horses to rally charge. But there are none and the argument to defend Ukraine is an ego check at best.

  3. #2103
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    WW2 blew up not because Germany and Japan were annexing a bunch of people, it was the genocide.
    Literally not how it happened but I guess revising history is par for the course in a thread about Russia East Ukraine.

    Maybe if certain countries didn't spend decades destabilizing other countries in the same manner as Russia is doing with Ukraine we could find some moral horses to rally charge.
    Whataboutism is not an excuse, especially when you're talking to people that have consistently opposed "certain countries" doing the same thing and when "certain countries" do NOT have a comparable history of active genocide in the places they destabilize, which Russia East Ukraine absolutely does in Ukraine.

    Or is it legitimately going to take Holodomor 2 Electric Boogaloo for y'all to realise that "US bad" isn't actually a political position, it's an ideology of resentment?
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-02-22 at 02:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #2104

  5. #2105
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wunksta View Post
    Why would China get involved?
    Certain people get their jollies trying to paint it as a great "Clash of Civilizations" between the East and West because it makes for good writing.

    As opposed to, you know, the more banal task of reining in a belligerent and unstable post-imperial country that's lashing out at its neighbors in its socioeconomic death throes because its Tsar is a narcissistic turd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #2106
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wunksta View Post
    Why would China get involved?
    It would make great TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  7. #2107
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wunksta View Post
    Why would China get involved?
    They wouldn't, simply put.

    China has no reason to get involved in a shooting war with the west over Russia having bouts of imperial nostalgia.

  8. #2108
    are people questioning why china would get involved? They'll snatch Taiwan during the distraction or feel emboldened by Russia's actions. They're not methodical or intelligent in their methods of maintaining power, they just brute force.

  9. #2109
    The Lightbringer uuuhname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    are people questioning why china would get involved? They'll snatch Taiwan during the distraction or feel emboldened by Russia's actions. They're not methodical or intelligent in their methods of maintaining power, they just brute force.
    evidence for this being... from your head

  10. #2110
    i'll be happy if china gets shot by either side in the cross fire. that country treats its people and the world like utter garbage
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  11. #2111
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    are people questioning why china would get involved? They'll snatch Taiwan during the distraction or feel emboldened by Russia's actions.
    Moscow's 'justifications' for invading Ukraine run directly counter to Beijing's justifications for doing the shit it does in Xinjiang and Tibet, so....
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #2112
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    are people questioning why china would get involved? They'll snatch Taiwan during the distraction or feel emboldened by Russia's actions. They're not methodical or intelligent in their methods of maintaining power, they just brute force.
    China isn't ready to move on Taiwan yet even if they wanted to.

    In the modern age there's no real way to conceal the scale of the sort of staging necessary to launch what would require the biggest invasion by sea since 1944.

  13. #2113
    Banned cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    are people questioning why china would get involved? They'll snatch Taiwan during the distraction or feel emboldened by Russia's actions. They're not methodical or intelligent in their methods of maintaining power, they just brute force.
    I don't think China yet has the capability to build an air bridge to Taiwan, and iirc they also don't have the landing craft to get significant forces on the beach. And an air assault in modern times is a terrific way to lose all your soldiers before they land.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Ukraine blocked any resolution of Donbass. Even when Russia basically shoved it back to them with Minsk agreements.

    Once Donbass is resolved - in any way - and stop being hotspot (even if it means Russia crushes every Ukrainian attempt to stir anything with overwhelming force - like it did with Georgia) everyone can eventually move on (as everyone did after 8.8.8 - notice presence and even a word about it from Medvedev in Russian Security Council meeting).

    Russia have been complaining about NATO expansion the entire time. From 90's to today it always was an issue. Now Russia simply feels strong enough to do something about it - and NATO weak enough (given obvious US weakness and constant US efforts to make everyone in NATO dependent on them) for Russia to get away with it.

    He sees even bad resolution as better option then no resolution (given how 8 years of "no resolution" went).
    Jesus, your turnip credits must be sky rocketing. I love that you think country's joining an alliance willingly is the same as another country being invaded.

  14. #2114
    This is really only the first step. None of Herr Putler's demands have been meat, and nor will they. NATO isn't going to roll back out of Eastern Europe. Ukraine isn't going to be permanently banned from seeking membership. And after the frothing at the mouth at the 'live' security council meeting, with claims of genocide, of Ukraine getting nuclear weapons, of attacks on Russia itself, and everything else, simply occupying the separatists regions isn' going to solve any of those issues.

    Incidentally, there was a lightly amusing part of the whole charade, the only one in it, when the intelligence minister sort of accidentally spilled the beans talking of integrating the separatists regions and Putler corrected him saying tehy weren't talking about that 'yet' - the man looked absolutely terrified when Putler corrected him and Putler looked like he was relishing it, the only time during the whole thing he didn't looked bored.

    One of the more bizarre things going around is so many people pushing the idea that Russia can simply waltz in, overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime and waltz out again. For started the international community would not acknowledge it, and nor would the Ukrainian population. And I can't see the Ukrainian military just switching allegiances like that. The whole thing would collapse without a long, costly and bloody occupation to prop it up.

  15. #2115
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    One of the more bizarre things going around is so many people pushing the idea that Russia can simply waltz in, overthrow the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime and waltz out again.
    Inb4 "but Euromaidan".

    I'ma ask the Putinistas the same question I pose to Republicans that criticise urban electorates for constantly voting Democrat even if said Democrats are kinda shitheads (see: Andrew Garcetti, Diane Feinstein, Jenny Durkan, etc.): Why, if NATO is so bad, why have y'all not been able to offer a sufficiently attractive alternative without resorting to force? Do you not realise how much of a self-own it is that as bad as you claim NATO is, y'all are the second choice unless people have a literal gun to their heads? Rofl.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2022-02-22 at 04:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #2116
    Damn, Kenya gave an amazing speech at the UN Security Council. And Ghana said that the UN veto needs to go.

    Last edited by Corvus; 2022-02-22 at 04:17 AM.

  17. #2117
    Everybody in a world should see real picture, that is surrealistic, because of how USA is allowed to distort facts about this situation. All this things are about economical domination. I.e. real goal - is to destroy NS2. First Ukraine was used to blackmail EU via threat of stopping Russian gas transit. But Russia invested millions of $$$ in order to avoid this blackmailing - i.e. to build NS2 to bypass Ukraine territory. And therefore situation about starting NS2 soon caused total hysteria in USA's government, because millions of $$$ were spend to drive coup on Ukraine. So, they decided to destroy NS2 no matter what. And that eastern Ukraine people are held as hostages in this situation. Western Ukraine, driven by USA and western countries is going to commit genocide there to purge all russian-speaking people. But once Russia will make even a little step to help them to prevent this genocide - it would be called "Russia invades Ukraine" and that would be formal justification to apply even more sanctions, including, most likely, destroying NS2. And they clearly understand, that Russia won't allow such genocide, i.e. that even more sanctions are inevitable. Do you understand, that eastern Ukraine leaders come to Russia to ask for help purely VOLUNTARILY? That THEY want it? That this region has majority of population being russian-speaking?

    Do you remember Star Wars, Ep 1? Why separatism was allowed there and it's not allowed for eastern Ukraine? Is it double standards?
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2022-02-22 at 04:30 AM.
    FOMO, gating, RNG, grind, overtuning, competition - endgame.
    Solo MMO: no more humiliating queues and toxic competing.
    Aggro and combat: game would only be better without obsoleted mechanics.
    DF in a nutshell: GW2 copy-paste with AFK events and nothing to do.

  18. #2118
    There was no genocide. There was not going to be any genocide. You do realise that the current Ukranian president is a Russian speaker himself, right?

  19. #2119
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    There was no genocide. There was not going to be any genocide. You do realise that the current Ukranian president is a Russian speaker himself, right?
    Do you understand, that eastern Ukraine countries don't want to be part of Ukraine and it's their voluntary choice, that they're going to fight for this choice till death and that western Ukraine is going to use lethal weapons, provided by western countries, to get eastern Ukraine back violently, i.e. via KILLING IT'S OWN CITIZENS? And as ALL citizens are against it, western Ukraine would need to kill ALL eastern Ukraine people to get eastern territories back? What is it, if it's not genocide?

    Do you understand, that USA tries to destabilize situation in world again? But back in old times it was far from Europe. It was Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria. But do you understand, that this time it's f***ing Europe???
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2022-02-22 at 04:44 AM.
    FOMO, gating, RNG, grind, overtuning, competition - endgame.
    Solo MMO: no more humiliating queues and toxic competing.
    Aggro and combat: game would only be better without obsoleted mechanics.
    DF in a nutshell: GW2 copy-paste with AFK events and nothing to do.

  20. #2120
    So good of you to admit that what the Serbs did in the breakup of Yugoslavia and what Russia did in places like Chechnya was genocide.

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