1. #21281
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    It does appear as expected that finally the Russians have altered tactics and are having more success with gains on the ground recently. They are really following a Russian textbook war of attrition with Ukraine now, happy to throw bodies at the front for modest gains knowing their soldiers and equipment are more replaceable than Ukraine's. It's a dark approach that will take a long time to win if successful, but it is true that Ukraine is probably going to have a harder time resupplying troops and equipment as the war drags on.

  2. #21282
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    It does appear as expected that finally the Russians have altered tactics and are having more success with gains on the ground recently. They are really following a Russian textbook war of attrition with Ukraine now, happy to throw bodies at the front for modest gains knowing their soldiers and equipment are more replaceable than Ukraine's. It's a dark approach that will take a long time to win if successful, but it is true that Ukraine is probably going to have a harder time resupplying troops and equipment as the war drags on.
    troops, possibly yes.
    Equipment? Not while being supplied by most of the western world.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #21283
    Fucking RuSSians are at it again. Missile hit a shopping mall and set it on fire. Reportedly over a thousand people were in there at the time and there have been a lot of casualties.

  4. #21284
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Fucking RuSSians are at it again. Missile hit a shopping mall and set it on fire. Reportedly over a thousand people were in there at the time and there have been a lot of casualties.
    grim stuff looks really bad.

    Ukraine probably can't afford to be untactical with its assets but if they have a spare HIMARS they should bang Belograd

  5. #21285
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    grim stuff looks really bad.

    Ukraine probably can't afford to be untactical with its assets but if they have a spare HIMARS they should bang Belograd
    It was an ammo dump.
    It was a military command post.
    It was used by the Azov battallion.
    It wasn't hit by a missile, the footage has been doctored.
    And by the way, Russia didn't do it, this was clearly Ukraine bombing itself.

    Take your pick of the above or just make something up yourself - Russia will always find an excuse to kill civilians, one is as "good" as the other. It's a war of terror and the Russian war machine needs to be disassembled. I'll always be grateful to Ukraine for their part in doing so, and shamed at the high price they're forced to pay for it.

  6. #21286
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    grim stuff looks really bad.

    Ukraine probably can't afford to be untactical with its assets but if they have a spare HIMARS they should bang Belograd
    As much as that might be deserved three things:

    1. Ukraine must under NO circumstances hit civilians on purpose.
    2. If they fire at russia they'll violate their promise to the US.
    3. russia might react very badly to that. (read: will react badly)

    Now I know you don't care about russias response so #3 isn't that important to you, but numbers 1 and 2 are important as that might change the help that comes in. Also, I'm pretty sure the only way they could hit Belgorod would be by putting those HIMARS relatively close to the frontline, no sense in exposing them.

  7. #21287
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    It was an ammo dump.
    It was a military command post.
    It was used by the Azov battallion.
    It wasn't hit by a missile, the footage has been doctored.
    And by the way, Russia didn't do it, this was clearly Ukraine bombing itself.

    Take your pick of the above or just make something up yourself - Russia will always find an excuse to kill civilians, one is as "good" as the other. It's a war of terror and the Russian war machine needs to be disassembled. I'll always be grateful to Ukraine for their part in doing so, and shamed at the high price they're forced to pay for it.
    It was a Nazi mall full of Nazi shops where Polish and American Nazi mercenaries were buying their nazi merch.

  8. #21288
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    As much as that might be deserved three things:

    1. Ukraine must under NO circumstances hit civilians on purpose.
    2. If they fire at russia they'll violate their promise to the US.
    3. russia might react very badly to that. (read: will react badly)

    Now I know you don't care about russias response so #3 isn't that important to you, but numbers 1 and 2 are important as that might change the help that comes in. Also, I'm pretty sure the only way they could hit Belgorod would be by putting those HIMARS relatively close to the frontline, no sense in exposing them.
    Ukraine probably isn’t too keen on breaking promises to their single biggest provider of military goods at the moment either.

    Even if they might have a desire to give Russia a bloody nose back home, I can’t see them taking that risk at least not with the current situation.

  9. #21289
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Ukraine probably isn’t too keen on breaking promises to their single biggest provider of military goods at the moment either.

    Even if they might have a desire to give Russia a bloody nose back home, I can’t see them taking that risk at least not with the current situation.
    Exactly, that's why I mentioned it. I don't see them hitting anything inside russia unless that russia is *newly* minted russia, in other words, should russia annex the Donbass then Ukraine might say that's a legitimate target, but anything that was considered russia by russia before February 24th this year I don't think they'll hit.

  10. #21290
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Can you source your maps? No?

    Another map!

    https://alekswis.files.wordpress.com...t-23-06-34.png

    The reddish areas are 25%-74%...How many of those numbers between 25 and 74 are less than 50?
    In case someone actually wants to know:

    The 2001 Census has 6 of those 7 areas with less than 50% Russian mother language speakers, and 5 of them with >50% with Ukrainian as mother language. (The easter-most region has more Russian, the western-most has neither as majority but more Ukrainian-language speakers.)

    So as usual a simple fact-check fails.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua..._Ukrainian.svg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua...01_Russian.svg

    And to repeat a great speech about language:

    ...Today, across the border of every single African country live our countrymen, with whom we share deep historical, cultural, and linguistic bonds. At independence, had we chosen to pursue states on the basis of ethnic, racial, or religious homogeneity, we would still be waging bloody wars these many decades later. Instead, we agreed that we would settle for the borders that we inherited, but we would still pursue continental, political, economic, and legal integration. Rather than form nations that looked ever backwards into history with a dangerous nostalgia, we chose to look forward to a greatness none of our many nations and peoples had ever known...

  11. #21291
    At this point i consider Russia at the same level of Nazi German. I support a massive intervention of Nato, including nuclear bombs, stealth aircraft bomber, laser weapon and space attack. Even if it will cost milions of people dying in west.

  12. #21292
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    It was an ammo dump.
    It was a military command post.
    It was used by the Azov battallion.
    It wasn't hit by a missile, the footage has been doctored.
    And by the way, Russia didn't do it, this was clearly Ukraine bombing itself.

    Take your pick of the above or just make something up yourself - Russia will always find an excuse to kill civilians, one is as "good" as the other. It's a war of terror and the Russian war machine needs to be disassembled. I'll always be grateful to Ukraine for their part in doing so, and shamed at the high price they're forced to pay for it.
    And we have a winner. RuSSias UN representative is saying it is a staged provocation, like Bucha.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Interesting report on just how well Russia's economy isn't going. To the end of April, exports to Russia from sanctioning countries fell by 60% and from non-sanctioning countries by 40%. A study of Chinese exports to the end of May shows they were still well down compared to pre-war levels. And while the ruble may be stronger than previously, it is because they have money coming in from oil and gas sales but they are unable to spend that money, even in non-sanctioning countries.

    Without access to imports, Russia's economy is going to struggle, with manufactures shutting down and laying off staff. It is already happening in the automaker industry, due to lack of western supplied parts. Domestic vehicle sales in May dropped 84% for AvtoVAZ and 57% for GAZ compared to last year.

  13. #21293
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    It does appear as expected that finally the Russians have altered tactics and are having more success with gains on the ground recently. They are really following a Russian textbook war of attrition with Ukraine now, happy to throw bodies at the front for modest gains knowing their soldiers and equipment are more replaceable than Ukraine's. It's a dark approach that will take a long time to win if successful, but it is true that Ukraine is probably going to have a harder time resupplying troops and equipment as the war drags on.
    Frankly the Russian tactic right now seems to be to completely level any town/city/village in their way with artillery.

    And when I say level, I mean level. To the point it's all rubble and there's nothing left to defend.

    It's a very cynical tactic. But it worked for them in Grozny and Syria, so they are doing it in Ukraine.

    I truly question tho, what is the point? There's nothing left, the population almost completely evacuated, there's no infrastructure left, no industry, no economy. All they are getting is land, not something Russia is necessarily in short supply of.

    This is some WW1/WW2 total war shit.

    I legitimately don't understand what is the endgame here. Nobody in Moscow raising his hand and asking -What is this going to cost us?
    Last edited by Mihalik; 2022-06-28 at 03:25 AM.

  14. #21294
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    And we have a winner. RuSSias UN representative is saying it is a staged provocation, like Bucha.
    It would have been more believable if they just said "We were aiming for the rail depot next door that was being used to ship NATO weapons to the front line and we missed." and 3rd party nations (those neither aligned with Russia or NATO) might have actually accepted that excuse since Russian missiles don't have accuracy anymore since they've come close to using up their best weapons..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Frankly the Russian tactic right now seems to be to completely level any town/city/village in their way with artillery.

    And when I say level, I mean level. To the point it's all rubble and there's nothing left to defend.

    It's a very cynical tactic. But it worked for them in Grozny and Syria, so they are doing it in Ukraine.

    I truly question tho, what is the point? There's nothing left, the population almost completely evacuated, there's no infrastructure left, no industry, no economy. All they are getting is land, not something Russia is necessarily in short supply of.

    This is some WW1/WW2 total war shit.

    I legitimately don't understand what is the endgame here. Nobody in Moscow raising his hand and asking -What is this going to cost us?
    I don't think even Putin knows what the endgame is anymore. Maybe it's just Donbass and keeping Crimea "safe" (From a Russian perspective). Maybe it's still all of Ukraine somehow. Either way I'm not even sure a full mobilization will get them what they need anymore.

  15. #21295
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Frankly the Russian tactic right now seems to be to completely level any town/city/village in their way with artillery.

    And when I say level, I mean level. To the point it's all rubble and there's nothing left to defend.

    It's a very cynical tactic. But it worked for them in Grozny and Syria, so they are doing it in Ukraine.

    I truly question tho, what is the point? There's nothing left, the population almost completely evacuated, there's no infrastructure left, no industry, no economy. All they are getting is land, not something Russia is necessarily in short supply of.

    This is some WW1/WW2 total war shit.

    I legitimately don't understand what is the endgame here. Nobody in Moscow raising his hand and asking -What is this going to cost us?
    The endgame is Russia gets all of Ukraines gas deposits,no people or towns to interfere is a bonus.

  16. #21296
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I truly question tho, what is the point? There's nothing left, the population almost completely evacuated, there's no infrastructure left, no industry, no economy. All they are getting is land, not something Russia is necessarily in short supply of.
    They get unimpeded access to the Black Sea. They get access to the resources in Ukraine (and more importantly, they deny them to the West). They get to claim a "victory", hollow as it may be. They get "lebensraum", a buffer from the West. They get to avoid having the Russian people see their once-close cousins in Ukraine prosper through association with the West. They get a renewed boogeyman in NATO and the West, who they'll claim have conspired to break the Russian spirit with sanctions.

    In short, they're desperate, and they're trying to maintain their relevance in terms of oil production, and their grip on the Russian people.

    They're unlikely to achieve most of those goals, however.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  17. #21297
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I truly question tho, what is the point? There's nothing left, the population almost completely evacuated, there's no infrastructure left, no industry, no economy. All they are getting is land, not something Russia is necessarily in short supply of.
    It helps if you remember that they want Ukraine, but they don't want Ukrainians. It may just be land, but it's extremely valuable land--both in terms of the resources it contains and the location it's in.

  18. #21298
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I legitimately don't understand what is the endgame here. Nobody in Moscow raising his hand and asking -What is this going to cost us?
    Genocide of Ukrainian people, no matter the cost.

  19. #21299
    Snake Island has been hit yet again. Released video shows multiple large explosions across it, which the Ukrainians say destroyed a Pantsir air defence system.

    Its probably true because Russia immediately denied everything, saying they had shot down a SU-25 and 12 missiles and that they had suffered no casualties and taken no damage. I mean, you can see things blowing up in the video. Russia ain't even trying to lie convincingly anymore.

  20. #21300
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Snake Island has been hit yet again. Released video shows multiple large explosions across it, which the Ukrainians say destroyed a Pantsir air defence system.

    Its probably true because Russia immediately denied everything, saying they had shot down a SU-25 and 12 missiles and that they had suffered no casualties and taken no damage. I mean, you can see things blowing up in the video. Russia ain't even trying to lie convincingly anymore.
    At this point Ukraine should rename it Many Russian Ghosts Island or some shit.

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