1. #21321
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    JFC I hate Sergei Lavrov

    https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...eb2x&context=3

    This prick claims the invasion "isn't an invasion," that they had to do it to show the west that "Ukraine joining NATO is a criminal act" and that the war crimes and massacres are just "fake news."

    What a piece of shit.
    I saw that too. It's like they're cycling through justifications for the invasion from one day to the next. Is it about NATO? Ukrainian Nazis? Protecting seperatists from Kiyv aggression? Perhaps it's about Russian empire-building? Demilitarization? Maybe they pick from a hat every morning for the justification of the day, just to keep things spicy.

    And yes, Lavrov is a horrible excuse for a human being.

  2. #21322
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Because sometimes you need to do what is right.
    Agreed but in the meantime not exterminate your own low income citizens. What is the plan here? I really don't get it.

  3. #21323
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    It's really not. The Allies had bases in and around Axis countries for decades. The USA helped rebuild Japan from the ground up and turned them into one of our closest allies. Tens of thousands of civilians have been killed, more have been abducted from their homes and taken to Russia, and whole cities have been destroyed. This (demanding reparations and a change of how Russia does things) isn't remotely "vengeance" nor is it "grossly disproportionate".
    The axis powers surrendered. Russia is not going to surrender, no one is going to push this conflict beyond Russia leaving Ukraine.
    No one is going to make Russia change how it acts and behaves and I wouldn't get your hopes up for reparations either.
    The moment Russia is out of Ukraine countries are going to silently start lifting sanctions and pretend this whole war never happened.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #21324
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The moment Russia is out of Ukraine
    not going to happen. People underestimate this situation as it is, Putin has cornered himself into an "all or nothing" scenario. If he surrenders, he's going to die. And he knows it. So all he can do is march forward.

  5. #21325
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Source on Russia sending in their "competent elite forces"
    I would picture it as a Benny Hill sketch.

  6. #21326
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Come to Germany. We don't care.
    Don't give away my summer vacation plans!

  7. #21327
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    This (demanding reparations and a change of how Russia does things) isn't remotely "vengeance" nor is it "grossly disproportionate".
    "Reparations and a change of how Russia does things" isn't what YUPPIE was asking for, though. His exact words were "They HAVE to pay for everything they've done for the next 50 years or so, maybe even a hundred or more." Fucking over another country for a century is grossly disproportionate vengeance.

  8. #21328
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    "Reparations and a change of how Russia does things" isn't what YUPPIE was asking for, though. His exact words were "They HAVE to pay for everything they've done for the next 50 years or so, maybe even a hundred or more." Fucking over another country for a century is grossly disproportionate vengeance.
    "They have to pay for what they did" = reparations and reform. What do you think he's advocating, jailing the Russian people? Disbanding their government? Cutting them off from all forms of outside trade or aid?

  9. #21329
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    "They have to pay for what they did" = reparations and reform. What do you think he's advocating, jailing the Russian people? Disbanding their government? Cutting them off from all forms of outside trade or aid?
    Yuppie? Would advocate genocide no doubt.

    OT

    Reparations are in order, what these entail is up to what Ukraine wants and what they think they can get at the end of this.

  10. #21330
    China is building bridges with Russia to alleviate western economic Sanctions.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-61767303
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  11. #21331
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    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    China is building bridges with Russia to alleviate western economic Sanctions.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-61767303
    You don't build a bridge in two days, I'm sure this was already underway for a while, so I doubt the sanctions really played a part.

  12. #21332
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    China is building bridges with Russia to alleviate western economic Sanctions.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-61767303
    yes... in 4 months they planned and build a bridge to help Russia...
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  13. #21333
    A bridge like that takes 3-4 years to build and be tested, certainly not something built-in 3-4 months

  14. #21334
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    25% of ALL tanks is probably exaggerating as they had 12000 or so in storage. Then again, if that is meant to include those then it might be AFTER inventory to see which still run. (spoiler, a LOT of those are just rustbuckets.)

    But if the source is English then I wouldn't mind a link?
    I'd imagine many of their tanks have been cannibalized for spare parts, as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  15. #21335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I'd imagine many of their tanks have been cannibalized for spare parts, as well.
    I'm sure that happened as well. Still, 25-30% is A LOT. (not saying I don't want it to be real I'm just cautious as I don't want to get false hope up.)

  16. #21336
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I'm sure that happened as well. Still, 25-30% is A LOT. (not saying I don't want it to be real I'm just cautious as I don't want to get false hope up.)
    Keep in mind that they weren't talking about tanks specifically. They meant armored vehicles as a whole, which includes a lot more than tanks. Oryx has close to 800 tanks and roughly 1500 other armored vehicles listed as casualties for Russia. And that's very unlikely to be close to a full accounting of their losses.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  17. #21337
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Keep in mind that they weren't talking about tanks specifically. They meant armored vehicles as a whole, which includes a lot more than tanks. Oryx has close to 800 tanks and roughly 1500 other armored vehicles listed as casualties for Russia. And that's very unlikely to be close to a full accounting of their losses.
    That makes much more sense, I was responding to Flarelaine who said the russians had lost 25% of ALL their tanks not just those they sent to Ukraine.

    Speaking of numbers, I read today that some BTGs can can not even muster 30 soldiers and are still sent into battle. as we know a BTG should have between 600-800 men. (numbers from the MoD of the UK.)

  18. #21338
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    That makes much more sense, I was responding to Flarelaine who said the russians had lost 25% of ALL their tanks not just those they sent to Ukraine.

    Speaking of numbers, I read today that some BTGs can can not even muster 30 soldiers and are still sent into battle. as we know a BTG should have between 600-800 men. (numbers from the MoD of the UK.)
    Theoretically, they sent in about 75% of their available military force, so there's not as much difference between 25% of the invasion force and 25% of the total force, but I believe the Pentagon was indeed referencing the latter.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  19. #21339
    The 20-30% was of the total prewar active tank force, which stood at around 3300 tanks. 1200 were sent into Ukraine.

    Almost 800 have been verified as lost already, so the real number will be higher. If it is 1000, which isn't that unlikely, that is 30% just there. It could easily be higher.

    While Russia does have a lot of tanks in storage, all evidence is that they aren't being stored well, which combined with corruption leads to only a very small number actually being in a usable state. There is a reason they were pulling t62s out of storage to use.

  20. #21340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The 20-30% was of the total prewar active tank force, which stood at around 3300 tanks. 1200 were sent into Ukraine.

    Almost 800 have been verified as lost already, so the real number will be higher. If it is 1000, which isn't that unlikely, that is 30% just there. It could easily be higher.

    While Russia does have a lot of tanks in storage, all evidence is that they aren't being stored well, which combined with corruption leads to only a very small number actually being in a usable state. There is a reason they were pulling t62s out of storage to use.
    It occurs to me that there may be a confusion about 'ALL' tanks, I thought Flarelaine meant every single tank russia has on paper, including those in storage, which are most likely not usable any time soon. Whereas it may be that what was meant was out of the ACTIVELY serving tanks. The first number would be significantly higher than the latter.

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