1. #21661
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Do you think someone who is fed on a diet of state propaganda, who spends hour after hour defending lie after lie on an obscure gaming forum, has the clearest understandings of the situation?
    I think it is worth seeing all sides of propaganda, Western and Russian, and note yourself where they lie and where they are later proven to be right.

    "Clearest understanding of situation" through fog of war - economic or kinetic - from comfort of your own chair is impossible, but some glimpses of truth are attainable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    To protect Russia from what?
    Why do you protects Ukrainians? Because they, allegedly, subscribe to your own values and want to join you.

    Same thing goes for Donbass-Russia relationship.

  2. #21662
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Why do you protects Ukrainians? Because they, allegedly, subscribe to your own values and want to join you.
    No, because Russia invaded a sovereign nation.

    Who was Ukraine invading that required Russia to start a 3-day special operation that's now in its fourth month?

  3. #21663
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    It’s still a cheap price to see Russia go down mate, whatever deficits it’ll cause, will still look like nothing compared to 2008, we’ll recover, you wont lol.
    Except so far Russia rakes cash and even overtaken Saudis as top Chinese supplier.

    But thanks for pushing the green agenda.
    Promote "green agenda" by restarting coal power plants? West is destroying it as we speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    No, because Russia invaded a sovereign nation.
    If you're stuck on that point then because Russia (and Donbass) sees 2014 as illegal Western-inspired coup.

    And because sovereignty has practical limits (see Cuban Missile Crisis).

    Who was Ukraine invading that required Russia to start a 3-day special operation that's now in its fourth month?
    Plenty of countries invaded this century didn't invade anyone themselves.

  4. #21664
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I think it is worth seeing all sides of propaganda, Western and Russian, and note yourself where they lie and where they are later proven to be right.
    But you don't. You support Russian lie after Russian lie and this is yet more of your usual obfuscation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Why do you protects Ukrainians? Because they, allegedly, subscribe to your own values and want to join you.

    Same thing goes for Donbass-Russia relationship.
    We aren't protecting Ukraine. We're giving them the support to stop you committing genocide against them.

  5. #21665
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post

    If you're stuck on that point then because Russia (and Donbass) sees 2014 as illegal Western-inspired coup.
    hard not to see the parallels your espousing to the ones used to justify operation mongoose against Cuba after it's socialist revolution.

  6. #21666
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Except so far Russia rakes cash and even overtaken Saudis as top Chinese supplier.
    ...for one month.

    YTD, Saudi Arabia is still higher in total. Even in terms of YTD change (not just total) Russia is actually lower than many others: Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Angola, Malaysia, and UAE all have higher % increases YTD shipping to China.

    And to even get the one month boost, Russia has had to discount their gas to below what it was selling for prior to the invasion. So no, it's not so good for Russia.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  7. #21667
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    But you don't. You support Russian lie after Russian lie and this is yet more of your usual obfuscation.




    We aren't protecting Ukraine. We're giving them the support to stop you committing genocide against them.
    Shillcker really needs to update his talking points, cause even Russia officially isn't trying to beat around the bush this much by now.

    Russia by their own admission even dropped a statement that they have deported as many as almost 2 million Ukrainians and more than 300,000 Ukrainian children to Russia since February. That was just 3 days ago now.

  8. #21668
    Lithuania has double down on its 'special transportation operation' in response to Russia threats. Pootie complaining about sanctioned goods not being able to be moved by rail? Well screw you, it applies to trucks now too.

    Meanwhile Estonia's defence ministry has accused Russia of multiple border violations by helicopters.

    And Snake Island is the gift that keeps on giving - satellite imagery reveals fires burning and scorch marks on the ground. Something was hit there but so far no details on what exactly went down.

    Plus one of the oil rigs Ukraine hit is still on fire too.
    Last edited by Corvus; 2022-06-22 at 02:06 AM.

  9. #21669
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    But you don't. You support Russian lie after Russian lie and this is yet more of your usual obfuscation.
    I said "seeing", i said nothing about "supporting".

    You see plenty of examples of people here perfectly willing to endure hardships to benefit of their country/ideology - and yet you're incredulous at Russians daring to do the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    And to even get the one month boost, Russia has had to discount their gas to below what it was selling for prior to the invasion. So no, it's not so good for Russia.
    It's still higher price then a year ago, and way beyond profitability margin.

  10. #21670
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I said "seeing", i said nothing about "supporting".

    You see plenty of examples of people here perfectly willing to endure hardships to benefit of their country/ideology - and yet you're incredulous at Russians daring to do the same.
    Yeah, no one gives a flying fuck what you say. You are literally paid to lie to people, based on fucking propaganda from the Kremlin.

  11. #21671
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Russia by their own admission even dropped a statement that they have deported as many as almost 2 million Ukrainians and more than 300,000 Ukrainian children to Russia since February. That was just 3 days ago now.
    That's Ukrainian "translation", not Russian admission; actual Interfax article they link to says 1.9 million were evacuated from Ukraine to Russia, including 307 thousand kids.

    Given how many people try to escape war and have relatives and friends in Russia (including Crimea), this number isn't surprising.

  12. #21672
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    "This is all the West's fault, Russia is just trying to protect its territory by invading sovereign nations!"

    Man if I ever need a daily dose of bad takes all I need to do is check out Shilcker posts in this thread. He also seems to forget that countries aren't invaded into NATO, they willingly sign up. But of course Russian state propaganda is pushing the NATO boogeyman pretty hard.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  13. #21673
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    "This is all the West's fault, Russia is just trying to protect its territory by invading sovereign nations!"
    No matter what was Russian initial goal Russia is trying to do many things now after all that transpired.

    Man if I ever need a daily dose of bad takes all I need to do is check out Shilcker posts in this thread. He also seems to forget that countries aren't invaded into NATO, they willingly sign up. But of course Russian state propaganda is pushing the NATO boogeyman pretty hard.
    What you are saying is pure and ancient propaganda too; so much so i'm sure you're perfectly aware of usual rebuttals, so there are no need to repeat them.

    How does Swedish and Finnish "signing up" going so far, btw? Doesn't seem like that much of propaganda win now.

  14. #21674
    so I received several outlandish headlines claiming stories of Putin's granddaughter getting pregnant and sanctions for Putin's family abroad.

    It made me realize he has family abroad, living in Western states, under relatively non-confidential or obscure profiles

    why haven't we evicted them all (granted, they have tried to deport them) or, you know...

  15. #21675
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    It's still higher price then a year ago, and way beyond profitability margin.
    Not really, not when you consider inflation.

    And you're selling less.

    And you have other sanctions.

    And you're taking massive losses in Ukraine.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  16. #21676
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so I received several outlandish headlines claiming stories of Putin's granddaughter getting pregnant and sanctions for Putin's family abroad.

    It made me realize he has family abroad, living in Western states, under relatively non-confidential or obscure profiles

    why haven't we evicted them all (granted, they have tried to deport them) or, you know...
    Collective punishment is shunned for a reason; seeing West slide back into it is quite emblematic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Not really, not when you consider inflation.
    Even with inflation. You can check.

    And you're selling less.
    Selling less for more profit while Western costs pile up? Looks like more of a win to me.

    And you have other sanctions.
    Oil and gas aren't sanctioned at the moment; even Europe still buys them.

    And you're taking massive losses in Ukraine.
    If you believe Ukrainians. And if you believe Russians then Ukrainian forces lose x10 more (in match to Ukrainian claims of having x10 less artillery).

  17. #21677
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so I received several outlandish headlines claiming stories of Putin's granddaughter getting pregnant and sanctions for Putin's family abroad.

    It made me realize he has family abroad, living in Western states, under relatively non-confidential or obscure profiles

    why haven't we evicted them all (granted, they have tried to deport them) or, you know...
    His only granddaughter is 4 or 5. Stop getting your news on 4chan.

  18. #21678
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Even with inflation. You can check.
    Well, Russian ESPO last year was 74.31. This year it's 79.45. That's a 7% increase. Inflation is over 17%.

    So no.




    Seaborne cude is also being sold in higher volume... but for less revenue.

    Bloomberg: Russia’s Crude Oil Revenues Take a Hit Even as Exports Swell


    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Selling less for more profit while Western costs pile up? Looks like more of a win to me.
    That's because you fail to see the truth, tovarisch.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Oil and gas aren't sanctioned at the moment; even Europe still buys them.
    But most of the rest of your economy is being hit by sanctions, so costs are mounting. Costs that you can no longer count on being covered by oil exports as much as you're used to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    If you believe Ukrainians. And if you believe Russians then Ukrainian forces lose x10 more (in match to Ukrainian claims of having x10 less artillery).
    I believe the US/UK analysts, actually.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  19. #21679
    the big headline today is Russia violated Estonia's airspace now in what's deemed "extremely provocative"

    NATO member Estonia said Tuesday that a Russian border guard helicopter violated the airspace of the Baltic nation over the weekend, and Russia’s ambassador was summoned and given a note over the incident.

    Estonia’s military said in a statement that the Russian MI-8 helicopter entered the country’s airspace in southeastern Estonia in the Koidula area - not far from the Russian city of Pskov - without permission on Saturday evening.

    The helicopter was in Estonia’s airspace for almost two minutes, Estonia’s military said, adding that it hadn’t presented a flight plan, had its transponder switched off and failed to maintain radio contact with Estonian Air Navigation Services.

    https://english.alarabiya.net/News/w...nia-s-airspace
    https://news.sky.com/story/estonia-s...-move-12638006

    THEN SHOOT IT DOWN IF IT'S IN VIOLATION OF LAW

  20. #21680
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I believe the US/UK analysts, actually.
    Anyone who takes anything Russia claims as truth needs a reality check, especially given Russia has already claimed to have shot down 300% of the Ukrainian airforce. And Ukraine loosing 10x as much stuff as Russia? Thats some serious copium. Verified losses for Russia are, among other things around 800 tanks, over 1000 trucks, 50 helicopters, 900 IFVs. Someone seriously thinks Ukraine had, let alone lost 8000 tanks, 10,000 trucks, 500 helicopters and 9000 IFVs?

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