1. #21801
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Oh and right, I believe Soviets used ukrainian regiments to invade Finland, because for russians, anyone not russian is a toy to be broken and discarded as they please. The cowards will not fight their own fights, and now that they actually need to, you can see their success rate - 100% war crimes, but actual military objectives will only land them on a big mess for the next decades.
    Yep...you can see it right now as well, most casualties on the russian side are ethnic minorities, to the point that some have called it a hidden genocide. (They're still not exactly fighting their own battles.)

  2. #21802
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    To add to this conversation:
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Population that refuses to work with you, can get kicked out of country by a victor. So if area gets taken over, the russan immigrants will run into the russa.
    I kinda hope Ukraine pulls that forced relocation or people who support russa there will cause damage and terrorist attacks after its taken over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Not to put TOO fine a point on it but forced relocation of 'undesirables' isn't the look you want to go for, no matter how justified you think you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Let's not do ethnic cleansing here.

    Just because the RuSSians do it, it doesn't mean the Ukrainians should follow their example. Remember Ukraine is trying to not be RuSSia 2.0
    This is a horrible dilemma with two bad choices. What to do after a force of clear evil (in this case Russia, but there are other similar situations) invades your country, genocides and ethnically cleanses a part of it? ... You can (1) forfeit it and feel morally superior, but you're rewarding The Evil for their crimes and asking for a repeat; or (2) take back what's yours and deport the illegal invaders, but then every cockroach will crawl out and call you a nazi or somesuch. There is no good choice after being a victim of war crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  3. #21803
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    To add to this conversation:




    This is a horrible dilemma with two bad choices. What to do after a force of clear evil (in this case Russia, but there are other similar situations) invades your country, genocides and ethnically cleanses a part of it? ... You can (1) forfeit it and feel morally superior, but you're rewarding The Evil for their crimes and asking for a repeat; or (2) take back what's yours and deport the illegal invaders, but then every cockroach will crawl out and call you a nazi or somesuch. There is no good choice after being a victim of war crimes.
    You are, of course, correct. There is no great choice. But I do think that out of those two NOT turning genocidal is the best, also because of you don't want the invader to point to your behaviour and say: "see?". (And believe me, I'm no friend of russia.)

  4. #21804
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    You are, of course, correct. There is no great choice. But I do think that out of those two NOT turning genocidal is the best, also because of you don't want the invader to point to your behaviour and say: "see?". (And believe me, I'm no friend of russia.)
    I don't understand how

    "ban russians from holding dual citizenship if they have a passport granted by your country"

    turned into

    "genocide bad" conversation.

  5. #21805
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    I guess Russia is betting on Ukraine running out of ammo before they run out of meat for the meatgrinder.

  6. #21806
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    I guess Russia is betting on Ukraine running out of ammo before they run out of meat for the meatgrinder.
    Not happening as long as the West keeps supplying
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  7. #21807
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    I guess Russia is betting on Ukraine running out of ammo before they run out of meat for the meatgrinder.
    It's sadfunny, because I remember jokes to this effect at the start of the war when the myth of the modern Russian military was still a thing.

  8. #21808
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I don't understand how

    "ban russians from holding dual citizenship if they have a passport granted by your country"

    turned into

    "genocide bad" conversation.
    You'll have to go back up in the thread, but Yunru proposed deporting undesirables, by which they meant russians, or people with a russian passport. That -at the VERY least- is ethnic cleansing, and could be considered genocide, which is bad. It's a page or two back I think.

    The whole passport conversation happened after that.

  9. #21809
    The US has placed Russia on the human trafficking and child soldier list. Yeah, no shock there.

    Gen. Milley in a briefing has said that over the last 90 days, since Russia concentrated everything in the east, they have gained maybe 6-10 miles of territory. Thats moving at WW1 rates.

    And their own SU-34 that Russia shot down the other day? It was a SU-34M, of which no more than 10 exist and were only delivered into service last month. They just shot down one of their newest and best planes.

  10. #21810
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Well, that's ONE way of asking for more weapons.

    Bit crude though, but I'm not gonna pretend that the thought hasn't crossed every arms suppliers' mind.

    https://russia.liveuamap.com/en/2022...insky-prospekt

    And another fire, civilian object so I'm betting faulty wiring is an actual option.

  11. #21811
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Happy deathiversary, Russia. Congrats on losing 15,000 soldiers.

  12. #21812
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Happy deathiversary, Russia. Congrats on losing 15,000 soldiers.
    Thats probably a conservative estimate too. Its nearing 40,000 according to Ukrainian claims.

  13. #21813
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Thats probably a conservative estimate too. Its nearing 40,000 according to Ukrainian claims.
    I trust the CIA over Ukraine, but I trust Ukraine over Russia. Russia says 1,300.

  14. #21814
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I trust the CIA over Ukraine, but I trust Ukraine over Russia. Russia says 1,300.
    How does that work again? If between numbers 1300, 15000 and just shy of 40000 your pick is 15000, then isn't that effectively saying you trust Russian numbers far more than you do Ukraines?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  15. #21815
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Well, that's ONE way of asking for more weapons.

    Bit crude though, but I'm not gonna pretend that the thought hasn't crossed every arms suppliers' mind.

    https://russia.liveuamap.com/en/2022...insky-prospekt

    And another fire, civilian object so I'm betting faulty wiring is an actual option.
    *netherlands starts sweating profusely* ''We have no more ammo and weaponry to donate''. Fucks sake, I knew the state of the dutch army was terrible but that terrible? A bunch of fucking farmers on Texel could delcare independance and the fucking army cant do anyhing about that. Also, I read it were SU-35M's so probaly unfamiliarity with a as of yet rare fighter jet.

  16. #21816
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I trust the CIA over Ukraine, but I trust Ukraine over Russia. Russia says 1,300.
    Western Intel has previously said 20000 dead I seem to recall. Truth is no one really knows, and may never know, but it is a lot.

    Around 5000 funerals have been counted on Russian social media and that's just the ones known about.

  17. #21817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    How does that work again? If between numbers 1300, 15000 and just shy of 40000 your pick is 15000, then isn't that effectively saying you trust Russian numbers far more than you do Ukraines?
    No.

    First of all, I was talking about their sources. I think Ukraine is far more likely than Russia to be telling the truth.

    Second of all, Ukraine's numbers are not quite triple the US's. Russia's are less than one-tenth the US's. Russia is actually the one that's more different.

  18. #21818
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    No.

    First of all, I was talking about their sources. I think Ukraine is far more likely than Russia to be telling the truth.

    Second of all, Ukraine's numbers are not quite triple the US's. Russia's are less than one-tenth the US's. Russia is actually the one that's more different.
    If the 15000 is to be believed, then Russia is undershooting by 13700, while Ukraine is overshooting by 25000. Seems like one number is far closer to truth than the other, isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  19. #21819
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    If the 15000 is to be believed, then Russia is undershooting by 13700, while Ukraine is overshooting by 25000. Seems like one number is far closer to truth than the other, isn't it?
    No. You are missing the concept of absolute vs. relative change. By your logic, the Russians could say "nobody has died at all" and you'd say they were closer.

    Sometimes, relative differences matter more than absolute differences. This is one of those times. Russia's claim strains belief more because they're off by an entire order of magnitude.

  20. #21820
    Remember when talking about those numbers that some are killed, others are killed + wounded ect.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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