Russian invasion of Ukraine

[jonnysensible]

Remember Skripal case, that was definitely made up?

what when russians used a chemical weapon against a defector in salisbury, yea they were just visiting the cathedral. litvinenko die of food poisoning too?

[Elegiac]

Yeah, but facts are still made up in order to escalate sanctions. Remember Skripal case, that was definitely made up?

It wasn't.

Remember this guy, who used made up facts to justify attack on innocent country? Well, he lied to you and to whole world. How can you believe them after that?

I dunno habibi maybe because a) the Biden administration is not the Bush administration, and b) I was there at the time and remember the evidence of Saddam having weapons of mass destruction being extremely specious which was one of the main reasons I opposed the Iraq War from the beginning, rofl. That isn't the case with Ukraine especially since, you know, the US is not trying to justify invading it.

Do you not realise that Bush and Co. lying about Iraq to justify invading it is exactly what Putain is doing re: Ukraine and claims of genocide and "threat to Russia" and that you're doing far more work to argue against Putain by trying to draw those comparisons?

[Shalcker]

I'll correct myself.

He never formally resigned, he just outright fled the country after stealing a bunch of money like a little bitch. Moreover, him and his ministers choosing to abdicate their duties in an unconstitutional manner renders any question of the Rada's process moot. They worked with what they had.

Well, if you render "unconstitutional manner" moot then everything else is also moot. Example was set - not following constitution/laws to the letter was perfectly okay.

Therefore seceding was also okay. As did taking over administrations and police/special services in Donbass - Western Ukraine already did it successfully and got no problems for it.

Which were dropped from the roof and then thrown back, I'm aware. The reports concluded that the fire that resulted in Ivanov's death began on the roof.

"Throw back" glass container thrown from the roof? /facepalm

Come on, there were clear photos of maidan supporters filling their molotovs to firebomb anti-maidan camp. "They fried themselves" is insane cope - on par with Ukrainians later claiming that their Su-25 bombing run on Luhansk city administration was "rebel own anti-air missile targeting conditioners on the building".

Yep; as a result of escalation by law enforcement.
I'm not going to criticise people for resisting police brutality, even if violently.

Yet resisting Nazi brutality and seeking protection from them in Russian help isn't?

Again, let me know when mainstream media sources in the US are exclusively either state run or owned by personal friends of the President after being acquired after publishing material critical of said President.

"Hunter's laptop" story was already suppressed - despite it being, as we now know, quite true.

Why would they need extra acquisitions if "mainstream media" is already controlled by like 3 families total?

[Ihavewaffles]

This is called "double standards". Why can't eastern part of Ukraine be pro-Yanukovych and pro-Russia? So you just can't admit simple fact, that eastern Ukraine people can have another opinion, than western ones? And that if such opinions aren't compatible and never will, then separation is only viable variant? It's their legitimate will. Same as for Albanian people back when they separated from Serbia with assistance of USA's bombing. So, USA supports separation when THEY need it and denies, when they don't? Isn't it double standards?

Usa also sided with chechnya n its terrorists, so much for respecting borders..

[zmp]

I bet Ukraine is going to shoot down another airplane in protest and blame it on Russia (again).

[Flarelaine]

At minimum, this needs to happen:

1) Nordstream gets the axe.
2) Russia East Ukraine gets kicked out of SWIFT.
3) Putain and his cronies have any and all assets held abroad either frozen or confiscated to defray the costs of #1.

Anything less is just lip service.

Eh, they have been gearing for an eventual expulsion from SWIFT for years now. I agree with the rest, but good luck getting Germany to close that pipeline.

[Elegiac]

Well, if you render "unconstitutional manner" moot then everything else is also moot. Example was set - not following constitution/laws to the letter was perfectly okay. Example was set - not following constitution/laws to the letter was perfectly okay.

Therefore seceding was also okay.

Not when it's being instigated by a foreign power with an eye for annexing those territories further down the line without even the decency to conduct a sham plebiscite like in Crimea.

And no, that wasn't what happened at Euromaidan.

"Throw back" glass container thrown from the roof? /facepalm

Come on, there were clear photos of maidan supporters filling their molotovs to firebomb anti-maidan camp.

They might have been; doesn't change what happened at Odessa ended up being the result of anti-Maidanists starting a fight.

The point being that "the protesters burned a journalist alive" is a massively dishonest spin on events.

Yet resisting Nazi brutality and seeking protection from them in Russian help isn't?

Yep, considering that's not what's going on here.

Ukraine's far-right problem is a) vastly overstated by the Kremlin for reasons™, and b) also Russia's problem considering Putain is... you know... also a fascist.

"Hunter's laptop" story was

A crock of shit from the beginning but I'm not surprised you're still repeating it after it's been thoroughly debunked.

Nor was it "suppressed" since Fox was doing practically nothing but running that story on repeat for months. Stop lying.

[Shalcker]

I bet Ukraine is going to shoot down another airplane in protest and blame it on Russia (again).

There is a reason why companies cancelled all flights on 21th (before Putin's announcement)...

- - - Updated - - -

Not when it's being instigated by a foreign power with an eye for annexing those territories further down the line.
And no, that wasn't what happened at Euromaidan.

Maidan was allowed to go on for as long as it did under pressure of foreign powers - US and EU. With clear aims to exploit Ukrainian resources and workforce through Association Agreement - even though Russia offered much better economic deal.

They might have been; but what happened at Odessa ended up being the result of anti-Maidanists starting a fight.

The point being that "the protesters burned a journalist alive" is a massively dishonest spin on events.

Two groups clash, one burns another alive - "Victims are to blame for it". Utterly insane.

He wasn't the only victim:
The clashes culminated on 2 May, when 46 anti-Maidan and two pro-Maidan activists were killed and over 200 people were injured during a confrontation in the city center and the Trade Unions House.

Could you imagining saying the same if in US far-righters would force protesters into building and set it on fire while preventing firefighters from dousing it, resulting in 46 deaths? Even if they "provoked" them?

I think you would be calling for them to be executed.

[Elegiac]

Maidan was allowed to go on for as long as it did

No one "allowed" anything; Maidan was not an orchestrated event, no matter how many times you try to claim otherwise.

Two groups clash, one burns another alive

You're not disagreeing that framing it as "protesters burned a journalist alive" is dishonest spin, which is the point.

He wasn't the only victim

Never said he was. Put the strawman away.

Could you imagining saying the same if in US far-righters would force protesters into building

They weren't "forced" into occupying the building, habibi.

and set it on fire while preventing firefighters from dousing it, resulting in 46 deaths?

If they'd squatted in that building and proceeded to instigate a fight by attacking protesters from a high vantage point? Yeah, I probably would have not given a shit then either. I've no issue calling out people of my own political stripe for being idiots.

I'm noticing you're avoiding addressing my points about Ukraine's "Nazi problem" not being justification for running to Putain, who is also a fascist, nor me calling you out for lying about the Hunter Biden laptop story being 'suppressed' so I'll assume you're conceding them. Pobrecito.

[Flarelaine]

The language of this forum is English. Please make your contributions - including quotes, inserts and videos - in a language other posters can expect to comprehend.

[WowIsDead64]

what when russians used a chemical weapon against a defector in salisbury, yea they were just visiting the cathedral. litvinenko die of food poisoning too?

You should remember, that there are still no solid proofs, that Russia was involved in this cases. Everything revolves around zero-proof "highly-likelys". It's not even 100% know, if Skripal was really poisoned or his poisoning was staged. Same thing with MH17. There are ways to prove, that eastern Ukraine didn't have any missiles and that no Russian forces were there. Such as satellite pictures. But nobody provides real evidence. May be because they would prove opposite?

[postman1782]

I bet Ukraine is going to shoot down another airplane in protest and blame it on Russia (again).

Wasn't it already proven that the Russians did that? Like a long ass time ago?

[WowIsDead64]

The language of this forum is English. Please make your contributions - including quotes, inserts and videos - in a language other posters can expect to comprehend.

Sorry, same videos may not be available on other languages due to "censoring" reasons. I try to make all possible explanations in English. Such as "eastern Ukraine refugees massively escape to Russia".

[jonnysensible]

You should remember, that there are still no solid proofs, that Russia was involved in this cases. Everything revolves around zero-proof "highly-likelys". It's not even 100% know, if Skripal was really poisoned or his poisoning was staged. Same thing with MH17. There are ways to prove, that eastern Ukraine didn't have any missiles and that no Russian forces were there. Such as satellite pictures. But nobody provides real evidence. May be because they would prove opposite?

please stop lying and posting conspiracy theories. Russia was involved and orchestrated both events this is a fact.

[Shalcker]

No one "allowed" anything; Maidan was not an orchestrated event, no matter how many times you try to claim otherwise.

US and EU support for it was coordinated effort - like sanctioning Yanukovich government when he tried to disperse it.

Imagine them sanctioning Trudeau today for dispersing truckers and freezing their bank accounts. Would you consider that "foreign influence"?

They weren't "forced" into occupying the building, habibi.

They were. They had camp outside that was attacked by maidanites and so they barricaded into the building because they had no hope of fleeing from the crowd.

If they'd squatted in that building and proceeded to instigate a fight by attacking protesters from a high vantage point? Yeah, I probably would have not given a shit.

Which isn't what happened.

Initial clash was in an entirely different location too.

I'm noticing you're avoiding addressing my points about Ukraine's "Nazi problem" not being justification for running to Putain, who is also a fascist, nor me calling you out for lying about the Hunter Biden laptop story being 'suppressed' so I'll assume you're conceding them. Pobrecito.

You're refusing to look at reality and invent more and more convoluted justifications for far-righters burning their opposition while blocking exits and firing into the building.

Didn't expect "my team" can make even you into nazi apologist.

[WowIsDead64]

please stop lying and posting conspiracy theories. Russia was involved and orchestrated both events this is a fact.

100% proofs?

[Corvus]

Wasn't it already proven that the Russians did that? Like a long ass time ago?

It was, but you'll never get fascist apologists to admit it. Even the Iranians owned up to the one they shot down.

[Elegiac]

You should remember, that there are still no solid proofs, that Russia was involved in this cases.

You mean aside from the fact they were poisoned using a Russian nerve agent, right?

It's not even 100% know, if Skripal was really poisoned

It is. The perfume bottle in which the agent was delivered was found in a bin near to the site of the poisoning. The people besides the Skripals that were also poisoned collaterally demonstrate that it was, in fact, a poison.

There are ways to prove, that eastern Ukraine didn't have any missiles and that no Russian forces were there. Such as satellite pictures

Yeah. Like the satellite pictures of the missile plume showing it was fired from separatist controlled areas, and... you know.... the shrapnel from a surface-to-air missile of the type used by Russian forces embedded in the plane fragments and the human remains.

- - - Updated - - -

-snip-

Oh, I see: so your complaint is that the US and EU didn't sit back as Yanukobitch brutally suppressed political opposition to a corrupt regime and think that's the same thing as instigating a conflict for the purpose of annexation or largely peacefully dispersing people conducting an illegal occupation of a major trade route in response to pandemic mitigation measures while freezing funds that would facilitate said occupation.

Rofl. Imagine being this dense.

[MCMLXXXII]

Russian backed militants fully responsible for MH17:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2021-12-21/

[zmp]

100% proofs?

I think he means this image clearly shows that Putin was involved in the poisoning.