1. #21981
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I truly question tho, what is the point? There's nothing left, the population almost completely evacuated, there's no infrastructure left, no industry, no economy. All they are getting is land, not something Russia is necessarily in short supply of.
    They get unimpeded access to the Black Sea. They get access to the resources in Ukraine (and more importantly, they deny them to the West). They get to claim a "victory", hollow as it may be. They get "lebensraum", a buffer from the West. They get to avoid having the Russian people see their once-close cousins in Ukraine prosper through association with the West. They get a renewed boogeyman in NATO and the West, who they'll claim have conspired to break the Russian spirit with sanctions.

    In short, they're desperate, and they're trying to maintain their relevance in terms of oil production, and their grip on the Russian people.

    They're unlikely to achieve most of those goals, however.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  2. #21982
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I truly question tho, what is the point? There's nothing left, the population almost completely evacuated, there's no infrastructure left, no industry, no economy. All they are getting is land, not something Russia is necessarily in short supply of.
    It helps if you remember that they want Ukraine, but they don't want Ukrainians. It may just be land, but it's extremely valuable land--both in terms of the resources it contains and the location it's in.

  3. #21983
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I legitimately don't understand what is the endgame here. Nobody in Moscow raising his hand and asking -What is this going to cost us?
    Genocide of Ukrainian people, no matter the cost.

  4. #21984
    Snake Island has been hit yet again. Released video shows multiple large explosions across it, which the Ukrainians say destroyed a Pantsir air defence system.

    Its probably true because Russia immediately denied everything, saying they had shot down a SU-25 and 12 missiles and that they had suffered no casualties and taken no damage. I mean, you can see things blowing up in the video. Russia ain't even trying to lie convincingly anymore.

  5. #21985
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Snake Island has been hit yet again. Released video shows multiple large explosions across it, which the Ukrainians say destroyed a Pantsir air defence system.

    Its probably true because Russia immediately denied everything, saying they had shot down a SU-25 and 12 missiles and that they had suffered no casualties and taken no damage. I mean, you can see things blowing up in the video. Russia ain't even trying to lie convincingly anymore.
    At this point Ukraine should rename it Many Russian Ghosts Island or some shit.

  6. #21986
    I'm surprised with how many strikes on the island it hasn't become Snake archipelago.

  7. #21987
    Brewmaster Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It would have been more believable if they just said "We were aiming for the rail depot next door that was being used to ship NATO weapons to the front line and we missed." and 3rd party nations (those neither aligned with Russia or NATO) might have actually accepted that excuse since Russian missiles don't have accuracy anymore since they've come close to using up their best weapons..
    Why try to spin it as an oops when you can try to shift the blame? Again time honoured russian tactic, wasn't me, it was the previous guy/my cousin/my brother/that dude on the other side of the world.

    Edit: so they actually did it, they took halfhearted responsibility by saying they aimed for a weapons depot, but somehow a secondary explosion, which wasn't' their fault of course, hit the EMPTY mall....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I'm surprised with how many strikes on the island it hasn't become Snake archipelago.
    I know you're joking, but the amount of damage that would need to be done by conventional means is terrifying to make that a reality.
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-06-28 at 12:06 PM.

  8. #21988
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It would have been more believable if they just said "We were aiming for the rail depot next door that was being used to ship NATO weapons to the front line and we missed." and 3rd party nations (those neither aligned with Russia or NATO) might have actually accepted that excuse since Russian missiles don't have accuracy anymore since they've come close to using up their best weapons..
    They did, essentially, admit to that. They just claim that the trading center was nonfunctional and empty. I guess Ukrainian Nazis used black magic to scry the location of a future strike and filled an empty mall with people. How truly vile of them. /s just in case.

  9. #21989
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It would have been more believable if they just said "We were aiming for the rail depot next door that was being used to ship NATO weapons to the front line and we missed." and 3rd party nations (those neither aligned with Russia or NATO) might have actually accepted that excuse since Russian missiles don't have accuracy anymore since they've come close to using up their best weapons..

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't think even Putin knows what the endgame is anymore. Maybe it's just Donbass and keeping Crimea "safe" (From a Russian perspective). Maybe it's still all of Ukraine somehow. Either way I'm not even sure a full mobilization will get them what they need anymore.
    As said above by Phaelix, it seems it's more about what the great enemy shall not have rather than what Russia would be trying to obtain. And whether their lies and claims are believable as well, does anyone still think they care? They don't care about anything. It's about destroying anything and everything there is in that country, and the rest is irrelevant. They likely have resources to keep the meat grinder running for much longer than we think, or what the western solidarity efforts are expected to last. Unfortunately.
    Last edited by ifrah; 2022-06-28 at 12:39 PM.

  10. #21990
    Experience has shown how deeply the seeds of war are planted by economic rivalry and social injustice.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    Vice President Hubert Humphrey

  11. #21991
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Experience has shown how deeply the seeds of war are planted by economic rivalry and social injustice.
    The only cause of this war is Russia's fascist ideology.

  12. #21992
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Experience has shown how deeply the seeds of war are planted by economic rivalry and social injustice.
    This has nothing to do with economic rivalry. The best thing for Russia in economic terms would be to keep the peace and sell shit to Europe while benefitting from the European technological base.

    Russia has nothing to gain here in economic terms.

    There is no rivalry. Russians out of nationalism and ego went to war with their own markets.

  13. #21993
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    This has nothing to do with economic rivalry. The best thing for Russia in economic terms would be to keep the peace and sell shit to Europe while benefitting from the European technological base.

    Russia has nothing to gain here in economic terms.

    There is no rivalry. Russians out of nationalism and ego went to war with their own markets.
    What happened as a result of this war was not just that a Ukrainian identity strengthened, and Ukrainians connected more with their Ukrainian culture, but huge categories of people no longer see the idea of picking up arms for their country as radical
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    Vice President Hubert Humphrey

  14. #21994
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    What happened as a result of this war was not just that a Ukrainian identity strengthened, and Ukrainians connected more with their Ukrainian culture, but huge categories of people no longer see the idea of picking up arms for their country as radical
    No one has ever seen "picking up arms for their country" radical. That's right wing bullshit.

    Just that normal nom fascist humans can draw an ethical distinction between picking up arms to defend your home and picking up arms to be sent half way across the globe to kill brown people for no discernable fucking reason.

  15. #21995
    Turkey now supports Sweden and Finland's entry into NATO.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  16. #21996
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Turkey now supports Sweden and Finland's entry into NATO.
    What did Erdoan get in the trade?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #21997
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    What did Erdoan get in the trade?
    Here's the full agreement. Some very sweeping terms in some of the clauses. A lot of confirmation about the stance Sweden already had on some issues regarding PKK etc. I think it mainly boiled down to the arms exports, but I'm certainly no expert.

    https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/statu...56195257966592

  18. #21998
    Brewmaster Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Turkey now supports Sweden and Finland's entry into NATO.
    This makes me feel relieved. Regardless of how people feel about NATO it is better in than out from where I'm standing.

  19. #21999
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    This makes me feel relieved. Regardless of how people feel about NATO it is better in than out from where I'm standing.
    I went from being neutral about NATO to being pro-NATO. My change in opinion had a lot to do with these recent years of Russian aggression, and standing in solidarity with Finland (enabling NATO to supply/support Finland through Sweden).
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

  20. #22000
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    I went from being neutral about NATO to being pro-NATO. My change in opinion had a lot to do with these recent years of Russian aggression, and standing in solidarity with Finland (enabling NATO to supply/support Finland through Sweden).
    You just gotta love impotent ruskies frothing when seeing this.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-06-28 at 08:15 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

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