Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Shadowferal]

and there goes nord stream 2 byeeee

Now that's what I was waiting for. And I think that's why Russia has been such a tease. Germany has been too coy on its statements.
Russia may be too committed at this point however. *flips coin*

[Corvus]

Putler seems to have underestimated the resolve of Europe in the face of his fascism.

[Skulltaker]

Oh im sure it will be used later. But my hope is that it wont be untill russia has withdrawn completly. EU have to stand strong on this.

They won't. Neither will Germany.

Now that's what I was waiting for. And I think that's why Russia has been such a tease. Germany has been too coy on its statements.
Russia may be too committed at this point however. *flips coin*

Don't worry, it won't hold.

[Elegiac]

They won't. Neither will Germany.

Don't worry, it won't hold.

He said to himself, desperately hoping that repeating it enough times will convince the German government not to do anything that might increase his energy bill because that is apparently what's important in a discussion of Ukraine being invaded.

I see we've gone from "NS2 will never be part of a sanctions package" to "well it might for now but it won't last." Waiting for "well it might have lasted but it really didn't matter."

[Skulltaker]

He said to himself, desperately hoping that repeating it enough times will convince the German government not to do anything that might increase his energy bill.

Again, I'm heating my home with wood. Also, don't you think that if they wanted to stop it they'd have done it when Russia annexed the Krim? What do you think is different this time?

[Shadowferal]

With the EU it's about stability, and Russia is upsetting it.

[Elegiac]

Again, I'm heating my home with wood.

Sure, Jan.

Also, don't you think that if they wanted to stop it they'd have done it when Russia annexed the Krim? What do you think is different this time?

Something something straw breaking the camel's back something something Putain's little Nuremberg redux making it abundantly clear that this isn't going to stop with 'separatist regions of Ukraine' unless doing so represents a significant political and economic liability.

[postman1782]

It was, but you'll never get fascist apologists to admit it. Even the Iranians owned up to the one they shot down.

I know, and it isn't surprising we have people I have NEVER seen before in this forum, suddenly simping for Russia, and not surprising, that all of the known Russian propagandists are in this channel outright fully defending Putin and Russia's invasion here, and not blaming it on Russia, but anyone else but Putin. Seems the Internet Research Agency in St. Petersburg is paying for overtime.

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As hard fact as Saddam's WMDs

Not surprising you are defending Russian terrorist attacks, and Putins invasion of Ukraine.

[Elegiac]

I know, and it isn't surprising we have people I have NEVER seen before in this forum, suddenly simping for Russia, and not surprising, that all of the known Russian propagandists are in this channel outright fully defending Putin and Russia's invasion here, and not blaming it on Russia, but anyone else but Putin. Seems the Internet Research Agency in St. Petersburg is paying for overtime.

Don't forget the GOP and their propaganda arm in Fox are still churning out pro-Putain bullshit as a function of having caught the Trump brainworms. See: Them taking more issue with "Biden being weak" than with Putain actually invading Ukraine, and immediately switching to "Biden's a warmonger" at the mention of sanctions.

Like, I'm just gonna say it: the Republican Party may as well be a Russian fifth column at this point. Which is so fucking ironic for the party of McCarthy.

[Skulltaker]

Sure, Jan.



Something something straw breaking the camel's back something something Putain's little Nuremberg redux making it abundantly clear that this isn't going to stop with 'separatist regions of Ukraine'.

Yes, sure, Francois. Like it or leave it.

[Hansworst]

As hard fact as Saddam's WMDs

Russian backed militants fully responsible for MH17:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2021-12-21/

Or is Reuters also biased?

[Levelfive]

Now that's what I was waiting for. And I think that's why Russia has been such a tease. Germany has been too coy on its statements.
Russia may be too committed at this point however. *flips coin*

My read on this is that Putin is pretty flustered by being outmaneuvered by Biden, and having miscalculated and backed himself into a corner, is using this as a face-saving measure. He knows the economic pain is coming so he may as well inflict some--he doesn't actually have to absorb Ukraine at this point; the important thing is that he flexed.

[Skulltaker]

Don't forget the GOP and their propaganda arm in Fox are still churning out pro-Putain bullshit as a function of having caught the Trump brainworms. See: Them taking more issue with "Biden being weak" than with Putain actually invading Ukraine, and immediately switching to "Biden's a warmonger" at the mention of sanctions.

Like, I'm just gonna say it: the Republican Party may as well be a Russian fifth column at this point. Which is so fucking ironic for the party of McCarthy.

It's just like the party of the wealthy will do whatever keeps them in power.

[jonnysensible]

My read on this is that Putin is pretty flustered by being outmaneuvered by Biden

wait when did this happen lol

[Azadina]

Putler seems to have underestimated the resolve of Europe in the face of his fascism.

No, he really didn't. Because Europes answer is in a language Russians don't understand. What would they understand? Force, or the implied threat of it. Say, for example, if Europe were to collectively equip 5 million troops along the Russian border for "military exercises".

[Pann]

Strong move by Germany!

[Skulltaker]

Or is Reuters also biased?

I don't think anyone sane doubts Russia provided the weapon, nor that it was done by the pro-Russian seperatists. I don't, for the record. I think what most people doubt is that the attack was sanctioned by Russia. What probably happened was that Russia supplied a paramilitary group with a piece of equipment they had no buisness of owning, they fucked up using it and hit the wrong target. Which still makes Russia responsible, to several degrees. If you say 'Russia did it', though, that kind of implies that you think the Kreml ordered that plane shot down. Which is probably hard to prove.

[Muzjhath]

No, he really didn't. Because Europes answer is in a language Russians don't understand. What would they understand? Force, or the implied threat of it. Say, for example, if Europe were to collectively equip 5 million troops along the Russian border for "military exercises".

We should.
Sweden and Finland also ought to join NATO, a squadron of Eurofighter Typhoons ought to me stationed at Gotland, and Bornholm ought to get some fancy land to sea missile options shipped in.

[Elegiac]

My read on this is that Putin is pretty flustered by being outmaneuvered by Biden, and having miscalculated and backed himself into a corner, is using this as a face-saving measure. He knows the economic pain is coming so he may as well inflict some--he doesn't actually have to absorb Ukraine at this point; the important thing is that he flexed.

Something else to consider that a lot of folks end up discounting because of the sheer number of Putinistas infesting every online space and the fact dissidence in Russia can result in a bad case of window poisoning or w/e - Putain and his fanclub are not representative of the attitudes of everyday Russians:

On Sunday, police brutally dispersed a group of demonstrators who came to Moscow’s Pushkin Square, the traditional site of dissident rallies since the Soviet era, to denounce Vladimir Putin’s presumptive attack on Ukraine. The protesters, who included veteran human rights leader and former member of parliament Lev Ponomarev, were detained as soon as they unfurled their banners; some were taken into police custody and charged with violating Moscow’s strict ban on public demonstrations imposed under the pretext of the pandemic. (Needless to say, the ban applies only to opposition rallies. When Putin addressed 80,000 people packed into a stadium to mark the anniversary of the annexation of Crimea, the authorities had no objections.)

The weekend protest was only the latest in the growing chorus of voices within Russia itself opposing Putin’s threats to Ukraine — a trend that has been underreported by international media, leaving many Westerners with the impression that everyone in Russia supports the war. This is certainly not the case. In recent days, the country’s leading cultural figures — who traditionally hold significant moral clout here — have spoken out against an attack on Ukraine. “Russia does not need a war with Ukraine or with the West,” read a statement signed by, among others, rock musician Andrei Makarevich and actress Liya Akhedzhakova. “Nobody is threatening us, nobody is attacking us. The policy that pushes for war is immoral, irresponsible and criminal.”

For all the difficulties of measuring public opinion in an authoritarian state — where all television networks are controlled by the government and where many people are understandably hesitant to share their political views with pollsters or other strangers — the available surveys point to the strong unpopularity of a military attack on Ukraine among Russian citizens at large. Most Russians neither favor sending troops to Ukraine nor buy into the Kremlin’s narrative of treating the West as an enemy.

[Levelfive]

wait when did this happen lol

Biden's pre-emptive broadcasting of Putin's moves and his refusal to take the bait completely upended Putin's standard plays of extortion and disinformation.

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Something else to consider that a lot of folks end up discounting because of the sheer number of Putinistas infesting every online space and the fact dissidence in Russia can result in a bad case of window poisoning or w/e - Putain and his fanclub are not representative of the attitudes of everyday Russians:

Excellent point.