1. #22681
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    the last thing the US military needs is more insane ultra-right wing warmongers being given guns.

    It's safer for everyone if he just stays in his ramshackle cabin off in the woods like some doomsday nutter, his only interaction with the outside world being his insane rantings on a WoW forum between bans.
    You and I both know those people never have the testicular fortitude to actually accomplish anything in life. The dude isn't even an American, and is a proven liar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    I'll pitch in to get him a meal on the plane, and to be able to buy mosin nagant upon arrival. Can't let him fight empty handed afterall.
    Heck, I'll even pay for a fresh change of clothes, and some cammies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    no. it's more like no one knows what a solution to this crisis is anymore, not even myself. So if there are any creative ideas, feel free to share them.

    A) Diplomacy: has been entirely rejected by Russia. All attempts. They will not stop their genocidal conquest no matter what.

    B) Violence: Meh, people have divided opinions on this. Mostly bad.

    So, what can be done, really? NATO is clearly gearing up for the probability of option two, though.
    So, when are you going to sign up to fight?

    I've offered to pay for a one-way trip to Ukraine, so you can stand up. Time's a wastin'.

  2. #22682
    NATO should just go in and kill them all. 5 Months ago.

    Call the nuclear bluff.

  3. #22683
    Epic! Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    NATO should just go in and kill them all. 5 Months ago.

    Call the nuclear bluff.
    Yeah...no. If you want to see the world burn that's fine, I'd rather not. Calling nuclear bluff with someone who doesn't care is generally not a great idea,.

  4. #22684
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Yeah...no. If you want to see the world burn that's fine, I'd rather not. Calling nuclear bluff with someone who doesn't care is generally not a great idea,.
    as people have and keep pointed/pointing out though (and I'm not adding to the suggestion the other guy made), if NATO or the West just kowtows to the nuclear blackmail, Putin will feel emboldened to keep conquering and killing as he pleases.

    It's his biggest card. So regardless of doing nothing or going the violent route, he wins regardless. As you said, he doesn't give a shit, so if he dies in MAD, he'll feel it's a victory if his enemies go down with him.

  5. #22685
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    NATO should just go in and kill them all. 5 Months ago.

    Call the nuclear bluff.
    Why would they? They have Ukraine willingly throwing their own troops at Russia, and all NATO has to do is arm them.

  6. #22686
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    as people have and keep pointed/pointing out though (and I'm not adding to the suggestion the other guy made), if NATO or the West just kowtows to the nuclear blackmail, Putin will feel emboldened to keep conquering and killing as he pleases.

    It's his biggest card. So regardless of doing nothing or going the violent route, he wins regardless. As you said, he doesn't give a shit, so if he dies in MAD, he'll feel it's a victory if his enemies go down with him.
    You do realise there's a period in history that shows why going in to fight a nuclear power directly is a very bad idea. It starts around 1948 and ends around 1991.

  7. #22687
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    You do realise there's a period in history that shows why going in to fight a nuclear power directly is a very bad idea. It starts around 1948 and ends around 1991.
    I AM NOT suggesting violence. I am just saying because there's no diplomatic or violent solution to stopping Russia, Putin will win. He can't be stopped when there are no options to play.

    That's all.

  8. #22688
    Just because YUPPIE has an unhealthy obsession with nukes, doesn't make him wrong about what is necessary to end the war in Ukraine.

    The West needs to put on the Big Boy Pants and realize that the relative peace and prosperity we have had for the past century is an anomaly, and if we want to extend it, we need to do more than Thoughts and Prayers.

  9. #22689
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    no. it's more like no one knows what a solution to this crisis is anymore, not even myself. So if there are any creative ideas, feel free to share them.

    A) Diplomacy: has been entirely rejected by Russia. All attempts. They will not stop their genocidal conquest no matter what.

    B) Violence: Meh, people have divided opinions on this. Mostly bad.

    So, what can be done, really? NATO is clearly gearing up for the probability of option two, though.
    There. Won't. Ever. Be. Any. Military. Involvement. Of. Nato. Over. Ukraine.

    You won't get the world war you desire so much.

  10. #22690
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Just because YUPPIE has an unhealthy obsession with nukes, doesn't make him wrong about what is necessary to end the war in Ukraine.

    The West needs to put on the Big Boy Pants and realize that the relative peace and prosperity we have had for the past century is an anomaly, and if we want to extend it, we need to do more than Thoughts and Prayers.
    Then go sign up as a volunteer. Rational, civilized people realise that we don't let emotions deictate foreign policy and the only acceptable chance of a nuclear conflict is 0.00000000000000000%.

  11. #22691
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Then go sign up as a volunteer. Rational, civilized people realise that we don't let emotions deictate foreign policy and the only acceptable chance of a nuclear conflict is 0.00000000000000000%.
    And this is exactly why Russia does what it does, and will do so in the future. Because it knows it can.

  12. #22692
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    And this is exactly why Russia does what it does, and will do so in the future. Because it knows it can.
    And your solution ends humanity. The fate of nearly 8 billion people is far more important than the fate of 40millionish people.

  13. #22693
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    And your solution ends humanity. The fate of nearly 8 billion people is far more important than the fate of 40millionish people.
    What fucking solution? Blowing away ruskies from Ukraine with something like coordinated Western coalition air forces wouldn't lead to nuclear war. Revoking all visas for russian nationals in EU and the US wouldn't lead to nuclear war. Closing oil and gas pipelines from russia wouldn't lead to nuclear war.

  14. #22694
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    And your solution ends humanity. The fate of nearly 8 billion people is far more important than the fate of 40millionish people.
    And again, approach like this is why Russia has still any pull in todays world. "Aw damn, better not help too much countries Russia attacks, they have n00kz". But guess what? Their threats are empty and desperate. Finland/Sweden will join NATO, and what is Russia going to do? Nothing. Embargos come in left and right, choking ruskies, and what are they going to do? Nothing.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-07-30 at 05:49 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  15. #22695
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    But guess what? Their threats are empty and desperate.
    wouldn't say that if we hypothetically push them into an absolute corner through sanctions and potentially repelling them out of Ukraine completely. Because at that point, what would they have left to lose?


  16. #22696
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    wouldn't say that if we hypothetically push them into an absolute corner through sanctions and potentially repelling them out of Ukraine completely. Because at that point, what would they have left to lose?
    Please don't reply to me with Russian talking heads and their propaganda, you disturbed person.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #22697
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    wouldn't say that if we hypothetically push them into an absolute corner through sanctions and potentially repelling them out of Ukraine completely. Because at that point, what would they have left to lose?

    Their lives, at which point the criminals in Putler's inner circle will do what criminals do best and backstab their master to save their hide.

  18. #22698
    Yeah no, maybe you bois are brave big boy pants types. But I have actual plans for future that don't involve economy blowing up and world going to full out war.

    This thing will be self-resolved in the next decade anyway, because Putin is not eternal and eventually the patriotic fervor will die down and they will have to address troubles at home.

    What Russia did is yet another Afghanistan - they will stay there for some years and even see relative points of success, but in the end they won't be able to keep paying the costs and will have to get the fuck away a lesser state than they were a year ago.

    All the West needs to do is the same shit it did in Afghanistan in 80s - arm locals and let them do the job. Eventually Russia will understand that there is nothing to gain there anymore and fuck off.

    And I wish to remind you again that USSR in 80s was stronger than Russia of today, even with all the system troubles brewing.

    It's called patience, not pepega mmo-c style "lol fire ze missilez, I can take it!".
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  19. #22699
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Yeah no, maybe you bois are brave big boy pants types. But I have actual plans for future that don't involve economy blowing up and world going to full out war.

    This thing will be self-resolved in the next decade anyway, because Putin is not eternal and eventually the patriotic fervor will die down and they will have to address troubles at home.

    What Russia did is yet another Afghanistan - they will stay there for some years and even see relative points of success, but in the end they won't be able to keep paying the costs and will have to get the fuck away a lesser state than they were a year ago.

    All the West needs to do is the same shit it did in Afghanistan in 80s - arm locals and let them do the job. Eventually Russia will understand that there is nothing to gain there anymore and fuck off.

    And I wish to remind you again that USSR in 80s was stronger than Russia of today, even with all the system troubles brewing.

    It's called patience, not pepega mmo-c style "lol fire ze missilez, I can take it!".
    Russia isn't even the issue. You think China will give play nice once they are done with their planning and building?

    Edit: besides, russia and China don't give a shit about your plans, and that is exactly the thing I want us Westerners to fucking learn already.

    We can act all high and mighty and swear off violence as something for uncivilized brutes, but the brutes won't care. In fact it just makes it easier for them to use violence to get what they want.
    Last edited by Gabriel; 2022-07-30 at 07:34 PM.

  20. #22700
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Russia isn't even the issue. You think China will give play nice once they are done with their planning and building?

    Edit: besides, russia and China don't give a shit about your plans, and that is exactly the thing I want us Westerners to fucking learn already.

    We can act all high and mighty and swear off violence as something for uncivilized brutes, but the brutes won't care. In fact it just makes it easier for them to use violence to get what they want.
    Swear off violence? The West engages and supports plenty of violence all around the world. The US alone is responsible for most of the violence from war in the 21st century.

    We just prefer the world doesn't end in nuclear fire.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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