Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Twdft]

Increase visa fees for ruSSians to €20.000 a pop and tell them all of that money will be spent on weapons for Ukraine.

[Edge-]

Many citizens of even European countries. I think they just want the EU gone and see Putin as a "strong and charismatic" leader.

Which ones in particular are you thinking about?

As for the propaganda, it is not as irrelevant as you may think. As it was pointed out, propaganda with a bit of truth is easier to swallow.

Again, if they're already successful without those kernels, why worry about what Russia does with or without those kernels? It won't change their behavior and will, based on recent evidence, likely have negligible impact on the effectiveness of their propaganda given their success domestically.

[Makabreska]

Many citizens of even European countries. I think they just want the EU gone and see Putin as a "strong and charismatic" leader.

Yeee, Putlers attack and crimes in Ukraine suddenly made all those supporters so quiet and hesitant.

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Which ones in particular are you thinking about?

Prolly usual suspects. Le Pen and such.

[Specialka]

Which ones in particular are you thinking about?



Again, if they're already successful without those kernels, why worry about what Russia does with or without those kernels? It won't change their behavior and will, based on recent evidence, likely have negligible impact on the effectiveness of their propaganda given their success domestically.

Overall, I would say they are mostly far-right for the biggest part. But not only, you also have those that do not like the EU or the USA, and we have those on the left as well.

That would also render more difficult for opponents to leave Russia.

So not a so big win a full ban would achieve.

[Edge-]

Overall, I would say they are mostly far-right for the biggest part. But not only, you also have those that do not like the EU or the USA, and we have those on the left as well.

That would also render more difficult for opponents to leave Russia.

So not a so big win a full ban would achieve.

Who's far-right? What does people not liking the EU or USA have to do with this? I'm horribly confused.

And I'm sure that it's not terribly difficult to set up exceptions for "refugees" (for lack of a better term) who want to flee Russia given the state of things there and that there would be quite a bit of support for that.

[Specialka]

Who's far-right? What does people not liking the EU or USA have to do with this? I'm horribly confused.

And I'm sure that it's not terribly difficult to set up exceptions for "refugees" (for lack of a better term) who want to flee Russia given the state of things there and that there would be quite a bit of support for that.

People ? You do not know we have far right leaning people in the EU ?

And Putin embodies for them what they likes and faces what they hate, mostly the EU and the USA. But as I stated it is not only far right people that supports Russia in this mess. They are just the biggest part of it, at least in the EU.

[Edge-]

People ? You do not know we have far right leaning people in the EU ?

You keep talking about these "people" existing. I keep asking who they are. You keep responding with, "You know, people!" and I still have no clue who you're talking about. You say they exist yet can't point to them.

And Putin embodies for them what they likes and faces what they hate, mostly the EU and the USA. But as I stated it is not only far right people that supports Russia in this mess. They are just the biggest part of it, at least in the EU.

So show some examples. How many of these people are there? Where are they? Are they in positions of power or authority or just randoms on the street?

[Specialka]

You keep talking about these "people" existing. I keep asking who they are. You keep responding with, "You know, people!" and I still have no clue who you're talking about. You say they exist yet can't point to them.



So show some examples. How many of these people are there? Where are they? Are they in positions of power or authority or just randoms on the street?

I do not mean political party (supporting Russia as a political party is a political suicide nowadays) or known person. Rather people leaning far right, how is that to understand ? You do know we had like 25% of voters that voted for Marine Le Pen in France ?

[Iphie]

You keep talking about these "people" existing. I keep asking who they are. You keep responding with, "You know, people!" and I still have no clue who you're talking about. You say they exist yet can't point to them.



So show some examples. How many of these people are there? Where are they? Are they in positions of power or authority or just randoms on the street?

Anti-EU, Pro Putin:

Netherlands: Forum for Democracy (political party, 8 seats in a parliament of 150), led by Thierry Baudet, after being confronted with images from Bucha denied russian involvement (iirc)
France: Marine LePen French politician, though she had the decency to drop the pro putin stance at the start of the war.
Finland: Ano Turtiainen, Valtio kuuluu kansalle (political party, 1 seat in a parliament of 200). A real piece of work, linked to Soldiers of Odin and some guys who were recruiting in Finland to go fight on the russian side in Ukraine, got kicked out of Perussuomalaiset for racism. (The irony is not lost on me.)

The Soldiers of Odin themselves are given good exposure on the MV-lehti website which is maintained by a person linked to the DPR, so, yeah great associations. The group is somewhat popular, but not very large.

These are a few I could get to from the top of my head, but there's plenty more eurosceptics, if not necessarily pro-putin, UKIP (though that's obviously slightly less relevant) in the UK, Perussuomalaiset in Finland, etc. etc.

[Edge-]

Anti-EU, Pro Putin:

Netherlands: Forum for Democracy (political party, 8 seats in a parliament of 150), led by Thierry Baudet, after being confronted with images from Bucha denied russian involvement (iirc)
France: Marine LePen French politician, though she had the decency to drop the pro putin stance at the start of the war.
Finland: Ano Turtiainen, Valtio kuuluu kansalle (political party, 1 seat in a parliament of 200). A real piece of work, linked to Soldiers of Odin and some guys who were recruiting in Finland to go fight on the russian side in Ukraine, got kicked out of Perussuomalaiset for racism. (The irony is not lost on me.)

These are a few I could get to from the top of my head, but there's plenty more eurosceptics, if not necessarily pro-putin, UKIP (though that's obviously slightly less relevant) in the UK, Perussuomalaiset in Finland, etc. etc.

Thanks, this is close to the info I was hoping to get. That's more politicians than citizens, so I'm wondering if there's actually support within the citizenry as Specialka mentioned

Many citizens of even European countries.

[Specialka]

Anti-EU, Pro Putin:

Netherlands: Forum for Democracy (political party, 8 seats in a parliament of 150), led by Thierry Baudet, after being confronted with images from Bucha denied russian involvement (iirc)
France: Marine LePen French politician, though she had the decency to drop the pro putin stance at the start of the war.
Finland: Ano Turtiainen, Valtio kuuluu kansalle (political party, 1 seat in a parliament of 200). A real piece of work, linked to Soldiers of Odin and some guys who were recruiting in Finland to go fight on the russian side in Ukraine, got kicked out of Perussuomalaiset for racism. (The irony is not lost on me.)

These are a few I could get to from the top of my head, but there's plenty more eurosceptics, if not necessarily pro-putin, UKIP (though that's obviously slightly less relevant) in the UK, Perussuomalaiset in Finland, etc. etc.

In France, Melenchon (Radical left) was give some support to Putin (mainly because Melenchon is anti-US). Since the start of the war, he has taken some distances from all that.

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Thanks, this is close to the info I was hoping to get. That's more politicians than citizens, so I'm wondering if there's actually support within the citizenry as Specialka mentioned

Those who are openly anti-Eu and anti-US mostly. But that is because the shit has not yet totally hit the fan. The inflation is "contained" for now. If the inflation gets out of control, we could see an increased support to the anti-war side (feel weird overall, anti-war side is usually those advocating for peace and such, we live in strange times).

[Edge-]

Those who are openly anti-Eu and anti-US mostly.

Who are they? Is there any polling establishing how many of them there are?

The inflation is "contained" for now.

While the war is absolutely a factor in inflation, it's not the only factor.

If the inflation gets out of control, we could see an increased support to the anti-war side (feel weird overall, anti-war side is usually those advocating for peace and such, we live in strange times).

It still is, and they have been and still are doing so. But the whole notion that the only other position they can or should hold is, "Well just surrender!" is similarly nonsense.

It's like trying to dunk on tolerant folks for being "hypocritical" for being intolerance of intolerance. You can be anti-war but still support the defending victims in a war when it's been established that the side that started and can end the war has no interest in doing so. At that point you simply support the victims of the war and the nation defending themselves against outside aggressors.

[Iphie]

Thanks, this is close to the info I was hoping to get. That's more politicians than citizens, so I'm wondering if there's actually support within the citizenry as Specialka mentioned

Yeah, of course, but politicians get voted in, and in a parliamentary democracy with proportional representation such as in the Netherlands 8 out of 150 seats is a reasonable chunk of people voting for them, that's 5% of the electorate supporting them.

That's the Netherlands though in other countries these percentages may be different, so it's a bot difficult to say overall without an in depth investigation. But for example the third largest party in the Netherlands: the Party for Freedom (PVV, in Dutch Partij voor de Vrijheid.) is an eurosceptical party which used to be in support of putin pre-war and they have 17/150 seats. So while eurosceptism is more supported both parties had warm ties to russia as well, until russia fucked around and found out.

What I'm saying is: just counting politicians is not the whole story, nor is strictly saying this party supports putin and this one doesn't.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah, of course, but politicians get voted in, and in a parliamentary democracy with proportional representation such as in the Netherlands 8 out of 150 seats is a reasonable chunk of people voting for them, that's 5% of the electorate supporting them.

That's the Netherlands though in other countries these percentages may be different, so it's a bot difficult to say overall without an in depth investigation. But for example the third largest party in the Netherlands: the Party for Freedom (PVV, in Dutch Partij voor de Vrijheid.) is an eurosceptical party which used to be in support of putin pre-war and they have 17/150 seats. So while eurosceptism is more supported both parties had warm ties to russia as well, until russia fucked around and found out.

What I'm saying is: just counting politicians is not the whole story, nor is strictly saying this party supports putin and this one doesn't.

They have seats, and therefor public support. But is that public support tied in any way to their pro-Russia stance, is the point.
The party is supported by Russian money and voices support for Russia to keep that money coming in when they can get away with it but that doesn't make their voters pro-Russian, both the PVV and FvD are just right wing racist parties, their voters care about wanting to get rid of immigrants, not about Putin trying to reform the USSR.

[Iphie]

They have seats, and therefor public support. But is that public support tied in any way to their pro-Russia stance, is the point.
The party is supported by Russian money and voices support for Russia to keep that money coming in when they can get away with it but that doesn't make their voters pro-Russian, both the PVV and FvD are just right wing racist parties, their voters care about wanting to get rid of immigrants, not about Putin trying to reform the USSR.

I wouldn't class PVV as racists per se, Wilders is...not as bad in that respect, Baudet with his moronic Borealism and dweeping with rightwing idiots is definitely firmly there, and his voters don't seem to mind his pro-russia stance.

You are obviously correct when you ask the question how much of their voters will support their pro-russia stance.

[alkyd]

Guys, please stop pretending as if you are the epitome of xenophilia. Everybody in Asia, Africa, and South America knows that you're latent racists. When you people say that you all welcome Arab and Afghani refugees with open arms, you just make everybody else in the world cringe.

I respect the far-right movement in Europe for being honest to themselves and to the rest of the world.

[Corvus]

Dailykos update of the events going on in Kherson. Probably a little more optimistic than I'd be, but a good read. Of interest is that Russians on the ground there are complaining at the lack of artillery support. Given how critical artillery is to Russia both on defence and offence, thats a pretty big issue.

On to another daily - dailybeast. Just a little bit more tabloid. But in this case they are talking about Russian state media and the Kremlin's mouthpieces there who are showing signs of desperation. They are still convinced that it is only the US that is stopping them succeeding them and that they need to get the US top stop supporting Ukraine. So without Trump, how do they do that? They openly talk about assassinations and terrorist incidents causing hundreds of US deaths as a way to convince the US 'rethink its position.' They have obviously not been paying attention to history if they think that.

[Azadina]

Guys, please stop pretending as if you are the epitome of xenophilia. Everybody in Asia, Africa, and South America knows that you're latent racists. When you people say that you all welcome Arab and Afghani refugees with open arms, you just make everybody else in the world cringe.

I respect the far-right movement in Europe for being honest to themselves and to the rest of the world.

You could welcome all of those refugees before Europe; problem solved. Oh? What you mean you had no intention to?

[Deus Mortis]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-us-is...090010937.html
The U.S. is sending ‘VAMPIRE’ kits to Ukraine.

LONDON — The Biden administration announced that Ukraine would receive $3 billion in military assistance — the largest amount it has sent since Russia began its invasion in February.

The Department of Defense said that it was meeting both Ukraine’s “immediate and longer-term security assistance needs.”

Among the 245,000 rounds of artillery ammunition and the laser-guided rocket systems listed in the Pentagon’s security assistance for Ukraine under the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI) were the VAMPIRE Counter-Unmanned Aerial Systems.

VAMPIRE is an acronym for “Vehicle-Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment.” In short, the system transforms pickup trucks and other vehicles into mobile missile launchers.

The alteration of existing vehicles will allow the kits to have a more immediate impact than other forms of military aid, according to Matthew Schmidt, director of international affairs and an associate professor of national security at the University of New Haven in Connecticut.

“Most of the kit announced under the assistance is intended to support Ukrainian military needs in the mid-term to one or more years from now, even in a postwar environment,” Schmidt told Yahoo News. “But VAMPIRE is equipment that could affect the battlefield now, assuming it gets in theater fast enough.”

Schmidt continued: “Its advantage is it can be mounted on anything with a flatbed, so civilian pickup trucks with this system can offer fast fires ahead of ground forces, pinning down enemy positions or hitting personnel carriers. If you can flood the battlefield with these, you can create a fire effect to slow and pin down small enemy units, because you can deny them ISR [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance] from their own drones, and you can harass or eliminate lead elements of their infantry units.”

The kit is made up of a four-barreled rocket launcher and a ball that operates as a sensor. L3Harris, the manufacturer, said that VAMPIREs can be placed on a vehicle in two hours and applied by a single person.

“The VAMPIRE system itself is a counter-UAS (unmanned aerial system) system,” Colin Kahl, the undersecretary of defense for policy, said at a press briefing last Wednesday. “It is a kinetic system that uses small missiles essentially to shoot UAVs out of the sky.”

On sending the kits to Ukraine, a spokesperson from L3Harris told Newsweek: “Our VAMPIRE system provides the Ukrainian armed forces with even more robust capabilities as they continue to defend their country and democracy in Europe, and we will continue to offer our steadfast support to their mission."

According to the Defense Department, the U.S. has given more than $13.5 billion to Ukraine since January 2021 and more than $15.5 billion since Kremlin-led forces annexed the southern peninsula of Crimea in 2014.

I hope to see more and more of this.

[Specialka]

Who are they? Is there any polling establishing how many of them there are?



While the war is absolutely a factor in inflation, it's not the only factor.



It still is, and they have been and still are doing so. But the whole notion that the only other position they can or should hold is, "Well just surrender!" is similarly nonsense.

It's like trying to dunk on tolerant folks for being "hypocritical" for being intolerance of intolerance. You can be anti-war but still support the defending victims in a war when it's been established that the side that started and can end the war has no interest in doing so. At that point you simply support the victims of the war and the nation defending themselves against outside aggressors.

Do you think that kind of people look further to see the real origin of inflation ?

There is no polling about people openly supporting Russia.

By anti-war, I mean those that want to see the Ukrainians and the EU US defeated.