1. #22901
    Legendary! Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Airbases on Crimea hit or "spontaneously" exploded. These are more than 200 kilometers away from the frontline so that rules out HIMARS unless they got 300 km munitions and even then I'm doubting the US signed off on that.

    https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status...89234052997122

    https://twitter.com/SputnikATONews/s...88235900936193
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  2. #22902
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Airbases on Crimea hit or "spontaneously" exploded. These are more than 200 kilometers away from the frontline so that rules out HIMARS unless they got 300 km munitions and even then I'm doubting the US signed off on that, as in Biden was quite clear on that.

    https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status...89234052997122

    https://twitter.com/SputnikATONews/s...88235900936193
    Yeah, that's quite far. Extended Range "only" has 150 km range. Unless they got inside the occupied territory that is.

  3. #22903
    Multiple large explosions in the videos, so hopefully a few planes got taken out. And would indicate more than one missile struck.

    One option being touted is that it might be Ukraine's Neptun missile, which has a 200-300 km range and has a ground attack option.

  4. #22904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    Yeah, that's quite far. Extended Range "only" has 150 km range. Unless they got inside the occupied territory that is.
    I'm having a hard time thinking how they would do that and where. I mean Ukraine has been hitting the bridges, so that's not quite possible, Nova Khakova is under russian control and from Zaporizhzhia it's still quite a few kilometers, and all that without getting detected and slipping away again, potentially opening yourself up for capture or destruction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Multiple large explosions in the videos, so hopefully a few planes got taken out. And would indicate more than one missile struck.

    One option being touted is that it might be Ukraine's Neptun missile, which has a 200-300 km range and has a ground attack option.
    Can we rule out russian incompetence and blowing up their own stuff?

    Edit: ah, I see the excuse already. post below.
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-08-09 at 02:23 PM.

  5. #22905
    Russian MoD claims that it was just some aviation ammo exploding, there were no casualties and no planes damaged.

    Yeah, right. There are multiple massive explosions seen and reports of windows blown out a long way from the airfield. You are talking entire ammo dumps going up here.

    And if nothing happened, why did they just declare a state of emergency in Crimea and why are there traffic jams as locals are fleeing en masse?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Local officials are saying the district where the airfield is located is being evacuated.
    Last edited by Corvus; 2022-08-09 at 02:22 PM.

  6. #22906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russian MoD claims that it was just some aviation ammo exploding, there were no casualties and no planes damaged.

    Yeah, right. There are multiple massive explosions seen and reports of windows blown out a long way from the airfield. You are talking entire ammo dumps going up here.

    And if nothing happened, why did they just declare a state of emergency in Crimea and why are there traffic jams as locals are fleeing en masse?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Local officials are saying the district where the airfield is located is being evacuated.
    Some semi-legit reasons: pre-emptive evacuation, declaring a state of emergency frees up options etc. Just because 'nothing happened' doesn't mean the situation is under control.

    I am curious what it was in the end though as the Ukrainians don't have much with that range.

  7. #22907
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    Wouldn’t surprise me if the Ukrainians did hit targets inside of Crimea, the Russians aren’t taking that chance at any rate with how they moved vessels that are part of its black sea fleet out of Sevastopol a couple of weeks ago to a port further east.

  8. #22908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Some semi-legit reasons: pre-emptive evacuation, declaring a state of emergency frees up options etc. Just because 'nothing happened' doesn't mean the situation is under control.

    I am curious what it was in the end though as the Ukrainians don't have much with that range.
    Unhappy locals sympathetic to Ukraine?
    Ukraine military working behind enemy lines?
    Locals working with Ukraine military? (Combines first two)
    Foreign volunteer soldiers having a good ole time?
    Successful attempt to remove Nazis from region.
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  9. #22909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    Yeah, that's quite far. Extended Range "only" has 150 km range. Unless they got inside the occupied territory that is.
    The label says 300km. Not 150.
    Just do a quick search MGM-140 ATACMS.

    But If they got them delivered or not? Idk.

    But its a clear defensive war, so my stance is simple; ukraniane is allowed absoluetly anything.
    And Im of the opinion that we should supply them with anything they should require.

    In terms of targets every russian is a viable target, there are no actions ukraine can take that will shift my opinion on the matter.
    They could start striking soft civilian targets inside russia proper and I would react positivly to it.

  10. #22910
    It's amusing that the Russians are trying to pass this off as their own incompetence rather than admit Ukraine had anything to do with it. Just like the Moskva.

    And here we have Crimea openly attacked and the Russians aren't doing anything about it. I was promised NOOOOOOOOKES if it ever happened.

  11. #22911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    It's amusing that the Russians are trying to pass this off as their own incompetence rather than admit Ukraine had anything to do with it. Just like the Moskva.

    And here we have Crimea openly attacked and the Russians aren't doing anything about it. I was promised NOOOOOOOOKES if it ever happened.
    Deep down even the Ruskies know that Crimea isn’t actually theirs.

  12. #22912
    I see 3 reasons why russians are so comfortably wiping out a nation:

    1) They believe their propaganda

    2) They support the genocide

    3) They haven't had true horrors of war striking their home towns and seen gruesome deaths of their loved ones

    Pretty much those are the reasons I do also think that Russia proper is a valid military target for Ukraine. Fucked up world when Russia is allowed to genocide Ukraine, but we only supply weapons with special conditions, and if Ukraine dares to strike back for shock and awe, it'll be WORLD WAR THREEEEEEE.

    Although yes, Russia would definitely happily push the whole existential threat excuse to use even harsher weapons, and so I fucking pray the orcs are sent back in tiny pieces to their mommys to send a message...

    The magic word being "deterrence". They wipe out your local friends, you send them a reminder that they are not immune to such fate either.

    War truly has changed :S

    - - - Updated - - -

    To add, I guess I am not a fan of the whole moral superiority thing.

    No ukrainian, who lost their lives, families, homes will live happily thinking that "damn, at least I am morally better than russians".

    The end result of this war after all this will be (in case of ukrainian defensive victory):

    - Ukraine is devastated, infrastructure utterly wiped

    - Countless ukrainian soldier lives lost

    - Countless ukrainian civilian lives lost

    - Displaced ukrainians with nothing to return home to

    - Kidnapped ukrainian children still in Russia, indoctrinated against their home

    - Instability of the nation for years to come, with no guarantee that Russia wouldn't strike again

    Meanwhile in Russia:

    - Dunno, orcish trigger-happy torturous invaders are mostly dead or injured

    - Homes intact, civilians lives intact


    So yeah, there better be harsh sanctions (that apparently don't work, so no problem for russhkies to accept infinite amount of them) for the next century. Until Russia is equally devastated, not by Ukraine, but their own actions and following consequences.

    After all, murdering civilians is bad, but simply choosing to not engage in trade or diplomacy is nothing wrong.
    Last edited by Saradain; 2022-08-09 at 03:55 PM.

  13. #22913
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    I see 3 reasons why russians are so comfortably wiping out a nation:

    1) They believe their propaganda

    2) They support the genocide

    3) They haven't had true horrors of war striking their home towns and seen gruesome deaths of their loved ones

    Pretty much those are the reasons I do also think that Russia proper is a valid military target for Ukraine. Fucked up world when Russia is allowed to genocide Ukraine, but we only supply weapons with special conditions, and if Ukraine dares to strike back for shock and awe, it'll be WORLD WAR THREEEEEEE.

    Although yes, Russia would definitely happily push the whole existential threat excuse to use even harsher weapons, and so I fucking pray the orcs are sent back in tiny pieces to their mommys to send a message...

    The magic word being "deterrence". They wipe out your local friends, you send them a reminder that they are not immune to such fate either.

    War truly has changed :S

    - - - Updated - - -

    To add, I guess I am not a fan of the whole moral superiority thing.

    No ukrainian, who lost their lives, families, homes will live happily thinking that "damn, at least I am morally better than russians".

    The end result of this war after all this will be (in case of ukrainian defensive victory):

    - Ukraine is devastated, infrastructure utterly wiped

    - Countless ukrainian soldier lives lost

    - Countless ukrainian civilian lives lost

    - Displaced ukrainians with nothing to return home to

    - Kidnapped ukrainian children still in Russia, indoctrinated against their home

    - Instability of the nation for years to come, with no guarantee that Russia wouldn't strike again

    Meanwhile in Russia:

    - Dunno, orcish trigger-happy torturous invaders are mostly dead or injured

    - Homes intact, civilians lives intact


    So yeah, there better be harsh sanctions (that apparently don't work, so no problem for russhkies to accept infinite amount of them) for the next century. Until Russia is equally devastated, not by Ukraine, but their own actions and following consequences.

    After all, murdering civilians is bad, but simply choosing to not engage in trade or diplomacy is nothing wrong.
    Few years after this is over things have been normalized and Germany is happily buying more gas from Russia all the while Russian oligarchs are buying properties around the world in very suspicious locationbs near military installments.

  14. #22914
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Few years after this is over things have been normalized and Germany is happily buying more gas from Russia all the while Russian oligarchs are buying properties around the world in very suspicious locationbs near military installments.
    Let's not forget our own local thing like russians right -now- visiting Finland for shopping via visas that should not be given at all...And obviously the russian-owned holiday homes next to finnish military sites, sold without a problem. That also seem to be built according to military doctrine to make them harder to see from all directions.

  15. #22915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Let's not forget our own local thing like russians right -now- visiting Finland for shopping via visas that should not be given at all...And obviously the russian-owned holiday homes next to finnish military sites, sold without a problem. That also seem to be built according to military doctrine to make them harder to see from all directions.
    Wasn't that changed a couple of years back though? I recall there being a bit of a stink about it. I do disagree with the visa thing, especially for those russians that live in border villages. There's little love lost between me and russians but as I told a friend of mine: we don't need to be friends but there's no reason for hostility against regular people. (As long as they get lost at the end of the day.)
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-08-09 at 04:47 PM.

  16. #22916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Wasn't that changed a couple of years back though? I recall there being a bit of a stink about it.
    The Finsn would be fools to not have those buildings scoped, scanned, and ready to do to the building what Reynal did to his defendant.
    The Finns do not strike me as fools. Especially not regarding Russia.
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  17. #22917
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Wasn't that changed a couple of years back though? I recall there being a bit of a stink about it. I do disagree with the visa thing, especially for those russians that live in border villages. There's little love lost between me and russians but as I told a friend of mine: we don't need to be friends but there's no reason for hostility against regular people. (As long as they get lost at the end of the day.)
    For that one particular case at very least, yes. I believe it had a helipad built in the property, hidden within thick forested part, with ground-walls ensuring there is no visibility to the said helipad from the ground level, at least, when passing by.

    At least finnish authorities are confiscating anything from the "tourists" that has usage in military applications, probably based on the sanctions. So I can concur that russians indeed manage to abuse any loopholes and mistakes of hospitality towards them.

    Russian people should definitely feel the consequences of their supported genocide. It would only serve to turn them against their masters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    The Finsn would be fools to not have those buildings scoped, scanned, and ready to do to the building what Reynal did to his defendant.
    The Finns do not strike me as fools. Especially not regarding Russia.
    Finns are no fools military-wise when it comes to the russian border. Our politicians though, include some individuals who happily repeat Kremlin propaganda and become the useful idiots. I wouldn't be surprised if they lobbied the said property sales and possibly even delayed any kind of changes towards the whole ownership business.

  18. #22918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    The Finsn would be fools to not have those buildings scoped, scanned, and ready to do to the building what Reynal did to his defendant.
    The Finns do not strike me as fools. Especially not regarding Russia.
    Oh there are plenty of fools around who only saw the money and then there is are the proper traitors who live, breath and spew Kreml's propaganda.

  19. #22919
    Quote Originally Posted by Ettan View Post
    The label says 300km. Not 150.
    Just do a quick search MGM-140 ATACMS.

    But If they got them delivered or not? Idk.

    But its a clear defensive war, so my stance is simple; ukraniane is allowed absoluetly anything.
    And Im of the opinion that we should supply them with anything they should require.

    In terms of targets every russian is a viable target, there are no actions ukraine can take that will shift my opinion on the matter.
    They could start striking soft civilian targets inside russia proper and I would react positivly to it.
    No. ER GLRMS has a 150 km range. So far Biden has explicitly said no to ATACMS. They are discussing it though.

    I think they should be able to strike anywhere. Including in Moscow if they so wish. Legit targets are legit.

  20. #22920
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    No. ER GLRMS has a 150 km range. So far Biden has explicitly said no to ATACMS. They are discussing it though.

    I think they should be able to strike anywhere. Including in Moscow if they so wish. Legit targets are legit.
    And it wouldn't even be a war crime - Kremlin is not a civilian location!

    They launched many strikes on Kyiv, Ukraine should do same for Moscow, and specifically Kremlin.

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