Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Corvus]

The counter-offensive wasn't done with untrained troops. These were the troops who were being trained over the last six months in place like the UK. Unlike Russia, which gave its troops 2 weeks training and threw them into combat, Ukraine trained theirs and built up a powerful force with donated armour to be deployed when needed.

It is thought Ukraine trained up 3 divisions this way. One is in Kherson, the other just routed the Russians in Kharkiv. Which leaves a third unaccounted for.

- - - Updated - - -

102 new units on the daily Oryx update, if which 95 are captures.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Rebel44CZ...FXtekyAPEiJVAg

[Zaydin]

I'll paraphrase The Godfather II:

"The soldiers (Russians) are paid to fight; the rebels (Ukrainians) aren't. That tells you the rebels can win."

Technically, the Ukrainian soldiers are also being paid to fight. The difference is that they are fighting for more than just money unlike the Russian soldiers; Ukrainian soldiers are fighting for their home and families and to stay free of Russian oppression.

[P for Pancetta]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm all for Ukraine kicking Russia out - in fact I'm even all for turning the gas station of the world into an actual gas station for the world, by force

But I still can't believe that a nation like Ukraine, who is fighting with lots of untrained personal, is able to kick another's nation, who is also fighting with untrained personal, so hard.

I just hope they remain careful and don't make any mistakes in a rush to end this.

Is the equipment they find actually working btw? Or mostly piles of shit and steel glued together?

Shortly after Ukraine proved it had a chance to resist Russia's assault a lot of NATO countries started training large batches of Ukrainian soldiers, Many of them have since returned after six months of training. The majority of the ukrainian soldiers you see in videos from the conflict area are wearing relatively fresh modern combat gear, modern helmets and modernized Polish AK's with picatinny rails. The vast majority of Ukrainian soldiers on the eastern line where traditionally trained, training inspired from Soviet military doctrine. And some with very little training, like local volunteers.

It's highly likely that large amounts of these freshly trained soldiers have fortified the lines, and are part of the recent pushes into occupied territory.

About the condition of the equipment, a captured soldier said during an interview that where he was stationed the tanks that could fire where fortified in stationary positions and the ones they drove around in where broken, his own tank's auto-loader didn't work.

[Zaydin]

102 new units on the daily Oryx update, if which 95 are captures.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Rebel44CZ...FXtekyAPEiJVAg

Upside for the Ukrainians is that most of the Russian stuff they capture, once they have serviced/repaired it, they can repaint where necessary with Ukrainian markings and use them right back against the Russians.

[Gorsameth]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm all for Ukraine kicking Russia out - in fact I'm even all for turning the gas station of the world into an actual gas station for the world, by force

But I still can't believe that a nation like Ukraine, who is fighting with lots of untrained personal, is able to kick another's nation, who is also fighting with untrained personal, so hard.

I just hope they remain careful and don't make any mistakes in a rush to end this.

Is the equipment they find actually working btw? Or mostly piles of shit and steel glued together?

When bullets are flying and shells or rockets and exploding around you conviction matters a whole lot. Ukraine is fighting for survival. The Russians who are there don't even want to be there, they have no great desire to die for the politicians back in the Kremlin.

Its no real surprise they are turning and running rather then fighting.
Tho this level of disaster is quite something.

[Iphie]

Ukraine is reporting russian units in Kherson are negotiating surrendering their weapons.

https://liveuamap.com/

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-units...111100694.html

[Poopymonster]

Ukraine is reporting russian units in Kherson are negotiating surrendering their weapons.

https://liveuamap.com/

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-units...111100694.html

The asshole in me says "We'll take the weapons and armor. You get the fed and clothes on your back. And the next day you have to walk across that area you mined a few months ago. Get past that, you get food and water to get you back to Russia. Tell Vlad we send our warmest regards."

[Iphie]

The asshole in me says "We'll take the weapons and armor. You get the fed and clothes on your back. And the next day you have to walk across that area you mined a few months ago. Get past that, you get food and water to get you back to Russia. Tell Vlad we send our warmest regards."

I appreciate the asshole, but in order to encourage this behaviour compassion needs to be shown.

I know it's hard, but I'd rather they surrender than fight to the death because they have no other choice either way.

[Poopymonster]

I appreciate the asshole, but in order to encourage this behaviour compassion needs to be shown.

I know it's hard, but I'd rather they surrender than fight to the death because they have no other choice either way.

That's why the asshole in me said it, not the rational part of me. I want them to surrender. That means fewer bullet sponges for limited ammunition. Reduces the already dwindling numbers of the enemy. Plus free weapons of dubious ability and possibly reloads. Send em back in good condition, let em tell their stories of condition they had to fight in without support. How well the Ukrainians treated them. Let that filter through the people.

[KrayZ33]

Imagine the effect on moral (whatever is left) when the elite troops sent to defend occupied Kherson surrender without much of a, or any fight at all.
It's not like this won't reach Ivan at some point.

If it really happens, that would be amazing news.


edit: scratch "without much of fight" and add "without much success in holding the advance".
It's not like they weren't wiped out and surrender "just because".

[Iphie]

That's why the asshole in me said it, not the rational part of me. I want them to surrender. That means fewer bullet sponges for limited ammunition. Reduces the already dwindling numbers of the enemy. Plus free weapons of dubious ability and possibly reloads. Send em back in good condition, let em tell their stories of condition they had to fight in without support. How well the Ukrainians treated them. Let that filter through the people.

Yeah, I know, but there's quite a few people who sincerely want what you described first and that's just a bad idea.

As you say, let them go home well fed and well treated so they can tell how compassionate the Ukrainians were after all these months.

[zealo]

The asshole in me says "We'll take the weapons and armor. You get the fed and clothes on your back. And the next day you have to walk across that area you mined a few months ago. Get past that, you get food and water to get you back to Russia. Tell Vlad we send our warmest regards."

As far as I'm aware, forcing prisoners of war to partake in dangerous labour is a violation of the Geneva Convention, mine clearing included. It isn't to Ukraine's benefit building a reputation of bad things happening to people surrendering, especially not when the Russian army seems plagued with morale issues.

[PfeffermintShake]

Russian army losing so badly that Putin is at risk of losing the support of the Republican Party.
Chapo and Codepink are doubling down on their support of Putin.


Love of fascism really explains the horseshoe theory.

[Nymrohd]

That's why the asshole in me said it, not the rational part of me. I want them to surrender. That means fewer bullet sponges for limited ammunition. Reduces the already dwindling numbers of the enemy. Plus free weapons of dubious ability and possibly reloads. Send em back in good condition, let em tell their stories of condition they had to fight in without support. How well the Ukrainians treated them. Let that filter through the people.

Also Ukraine kind of needs a large number of PoWs they can start trading the next day for all the people (and children) Russia has abducted.

[Santti]

Also Ukraine kind of needs a large number of PoWs they can start trading the next day for all the people (and children) Russia has abducted.

I fear such exchanges are going to be basically non-existent. As Putin put it, there have been no losses in Ukraine.

[Saradain]

I fear such exchanges are going to be basically non-existent. As Putin put it, there have been no losses in Ukraine.

Works well until the said POWs will start contacting their parents from ukrainian prisons. THEN starts the questioning, that may escalate further...

Sounds good to me, no exchange of POWs unless every single kidnapped child and imprisoned adults are returned FIRST. Other than that, life in prison sentence for war crimes.

I don't really see Russia ever admitting they kidnapped children etc, and the chance to ever get them back is near zero...So I guess we have shit tons of prisoners to deal with...

[Nymrohd]

I don't really see Russia ever admitting they kidnapped children etc, and the chance to ever get them back is near zero...So I guess we have shit tons of prisoners to deal with...

Of all the shit they've done in this war this just is mind boggling to me. As the areas get liberated, these people will get a chance to speak and these are the kinds of stories the world listens.

[Santti]

Works well until the said POWs will start contacting their parents from ukrainian prisons. THEN starts the questioning, that may escalate further...

True. But on the other hand, I have a feeling Russia is not exactly keen on getting any of it's PoW's back. Combat-experienced, poorly treated, angry orcs might sound like a scary proposition for Russia right now. Probably easier to claim any and all PoW's as traitors, which I seem to recall being a thing a while back.

But yeah, let's hope the kidnapped people are returned, and sooner rather than later, with Russia financing the rebuilding of their homes.

[Gabriel]

That's why the asshole in me said it, not the rational part of me. I want them to surrender. That means fewer bullet sponges for limited ammunition. Reduces the already dwindling numbers of the enemy. Plus free weapons of dubious ability and possibly reloads. Send em back in good condition, let em tell their stories of condition they had to fight in without support. How well the Ukrainians treated them. Let that filter through the people.

"Haha pig homo westerners fall for the old surrender trick once again xaxaxa."

Have we not learned a single thing from interacting with russians on this very board?

[Canpinter]

"Haha pig homo westerners fall for the old surrender trick once again xaxaxa."

Have we not learned a single thing from interacting with russians on this very board?

What would you do then?