1. #23141
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I fear such exchanges are going to be basically non-existent. As Putin put it, there have been no losses in Ukraine.
    Works well until the said POWs will start contacting their parents from ukrainian prisons. THEN starts the questioning, that may escalate further...

    Sounds good to me, no exchange of POWs unless every single kidnapped child and imprisoned adults are returned FIRST. Other than that, life in prison sentence for war crimes.

    I don't really see Russia ever admitting they kidnapped children etc, and the chance to ever get them back is near zero...So I guess we have shit tons of prisoners to deal with...

  2. #23142
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    I don't really see Russia ever admitting they kidnapped children etc, and the chance to ever get them back is near zero...So I guess we have shit tons of prisoners to deal with...
    Of all the shit they've done in this war this just is mind boggling to me. As the areas get liberated, these people will get a chance to speak and these are the kinds of stories the world listens.

  3. #23143
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Works well until the said POWs will start contacting their parents from ukrainian prisons. THEN starts the questioning, that may escalate further...
    True. But on the other hand, I have a feeling Russia is not exactly keen on getting any of it's PoW's back. Combat-experienced, poorly treated, angry orcs might sound like a scary proposition for Russia right now. Probably easier to claim any and all PoW's as traitors, which I seem to recall being a thing a while back.

    But yeah, let's hope the kidnapped people are returned, and sooner rather than later, with Russia financing the rebuilding of their homes.
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    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  4. #23144
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    That's why the asshole in me said it, not the rational part of me. I want them to surrender. That means fewer bullet sponges for limited ammunition. Reduces the already dwindling numbers of the enemy. Plus free weapons of dubious ability and possibly reloads. Send em back in good condition, let em tell their stories of condition they had to fight in without support. How well the Ukrainians treated them. Let that filter through the people.
    "Haha pig homo westerners fall for the old surrender trick once again xaxaxa."

    Have we not learned a single thing from interacting with russians on this very board?

  5. #23145
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    "Haha pig homo westerners fall for the old surrender trick once again xaxaxa."

    Have we not learned a single thing from interacting with russians on this very board?
    What would you do then?

  6. #23146
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I fear such exchanges are going to be basically non-existent. As Putin put it, there have been no losses in Ukraine.
    I'd agree.
    There might be some hope that a post-Putin regime would return all kidnap victims and POWs.
    It also depends on how much of a backbone Europe has. Would any post-Putin deals for trade/aid be made contingent on the return of Ukrainians. Any Russian regime will probably place more value on those concessions than the lost sons of Tuva or Dagestan.
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  7. #23147
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    I can't wait to see Putin hang.

    Or fall out of a window.

  8. #23148
    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    What would you do then?
    Capture them, treat them according to all the internation laws, and eventually trade them for prisoners taken by russia.

    But I wouldn't expect russians to think of it as anything else but weakness because I'm not stupid.

  9. #23149
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I can't wait to see Putin hang.

    Or fall out of a window.
    Why not both?

    In the historical examples of Gaddafi and Mussolini, they were shot/beaten to death. Then hung in public.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Benito_Mussolini
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  10. #23150
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    While russia seems on the ropes and the news is very good, we should probably not count our chickens *just* yet. Let Ukraine do what it does and lets worry about putte later.

    Meanwhile, a story from liberated Kharkiv

  11. #23151
    https://twitter.com/InnaSovsun/statu...36595433545730

    Corpses of civilians were found in the recently liberated territories of #Kharkiv region.
    In one of the villages, 4 corpses with signs of torture were already found.
    Do you remember #BuchaMassacre? So, this is happening throughout the occupied territory.
    #KharkhivMassacre
    Yep, russians just gonna laugh at us if we are lenient in any manner here. My voice joins Gabriel's - fuck Russia, harshest possible penalties for their kind. Little Ivans gonna cry for their mamas once they enjoy the extended hospitality of ukrainian prisons with hopefully far harsher treatment than normal criminals.

  12. #23152
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Halloween Voter View Post
    In the historical examples of Gaddafi and Mussolini, they were shot/beaten to death. Then hung in public.
    About that...
    The video reportedly left a particularly strong and consequential impression on Russian head of state Vladimir Putin. A senior diplomat who had served at the U.S. embassy in Moscow under the Obama administration reportedly claimed that "Putin had been appalled by Gaddafi's fate" to the extent that "Putin had watched a video of Gaddafi’s savage death three times, a video that shows him being sodomised with a bayonet."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killin...uammar_Gaddafi

  13. #23153
    remember when people thought Gaddafi biting it would be a great thing...and how it actually turned out

    You're gonna see that with Russia. Prepare for that in the event of Putin receiving such a fate.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  14. #23154
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    https://twitter.com/InnaSovsun/statu...36595433545730



    Yep, russians just gonna laugh at us if we are lenient in any manner here. My voice joins Gabriel's - fuck Russia, harshest possible penalties for their kind. Little Ivans gonna cry for their mamas once they enjoy the extended hospitality of ukrainian prisons with hopefully far harsher treatment than normal criminals.
    I say… treat them according to all relevant international laws. Hope to exchange them for Ukrainian civilians that were kidnapped.

    If they view it as weakness… who cares? They can run back to their crumbling tin-pot dictatorship of incompetency and corruption while the rest of the world helps rebuild Ukraine. They can cluck their tongues and gloat about… how, after losing to what should have been a vastly inferior force and running like cowards, how Ukraine didn’t turn around and torture them when they had Russia caught dead to rights?

    No one is going to care what Russia says for a long, long time.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #23155
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    I'm sure that decisive counter-attack against the Ukrainian advance is gonna happen any moment now.

    Aaaaany moment now....

  16. #23156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    https://twitter.com/InnaSovsun/statu...36595433545730



    Yep, russians just gonna laugh at us if we are lenient in any manner here. My voice joins Gabriel's - fuck Russia, harshest possible penalties for their kind. Little Ivans gonna cry for their mamas once they enjoy the extended hospitality of ukrainian prisons with hopefully far harsher treatment than normal criminals.
    Problem is, that's how you loose West support if you step too far. There is still plenty of Putler lovers or pragmatic businessmen there who are only waiting for this to happen just to say" there are bad people on boths sides".
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #23157
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Problem is, that's how you loose West support if you step too far. There is still plenty of Putler lovers or pragmatic businessmen there who are only waiting for this to happen just to say" there are bad people on boths sides".
    You don't need to go impaling their heads on spikes to give them justice. It's just that eastern european justice is less lenient than the western one...

    Which means life sentences can be closer to life-long, rather than 15 years. And there is nothing vengeful in that, they committed war crimes like none other - they get treated accordingly.

  18. #23158
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    You don't need to go impaling their heads on spikes to give them justice. It's just that eastern european justice is less lenient than the western one...

    Which means life sentences can be closer to life-long, rather than 15 years. And there is nothing vengeful in that, they committed war crimes like none other - they get treated accordingly.
    I think you'll find that some Western European life sentences are much longer than the 12-15 years Finland has:

    Netherlands: life =life, NO parole possibilities, only the King can order your release.
    Belgium: life = life, with parole possibilities
    France: max temporal sentence is 30 years, with parole possibilities.
    UK: life = life
    Ireland: life = life
    Germany: life = indeterminate time, parole possible after serving 15 years.

  19. #23159
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Halloween Voter View Post
    I'd agree.
    There might be some hope that a post-Putin regime would return all kidnap victims and POWs.
    It also depends on how much of a backbone Europe has. Would any post-Putin deals for trade/aid be made contingent on the return of Ukrainians. Any Russian regime will probably place more value on those concessions than the lost sons of Tuva or Dagestan.
    Honestly we should be lifting NO sanctions. Keep assets frozen, wait for international courts to recognize rights to reparations and then allow reparations to be paid through said assets. But minor sanction relief for saving children that were kidnapped would be acceptable.
    Europe should not reverse their course of disengagement from the Russian economy whatever the next administration does though.

  20. #23160
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladim...in-ukraine-war

    So I guess Putin is retreating, too? Apparently he's delaying planned meetings with military officials.

    He's apparently got a very, very busy schedule of avoiding bad news.

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