1. #23161
    what happens if Russia loses the war but refuses to pay reparations to Ukraine? The way people optimistically see it, they're just gonna pretty much be their bitch for the next 50 years or so until their debt is repaid on paper, maybe even forever, but I don't think they would take that at all.

    I mean just like a "no" and becoming an isolated state like NK as people predict.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-09-10 at 02:07 AM.
    Lazarević: Are you a student of history, Mr. Drake? Nathan Drake: ...I've read a book or two. Lazarević: Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot - they were all GREAT men. But do you know why they prevailed? [beat] Because they had the will to do what other men could not. - Uncharted 2

  2. #23162
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    the thing is: Why is he so smug and unflappable now, then? Dictators usually fall apart at the seam when they fall into the self-titled trap, but this guy thinks he will still absolutely come out on top.
    You don't understand something very fundamental about the russian psyche. They don't know how to admit defeat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    what happens if Russia loses the war but refuses to pay reparations to Ukraine? The way people optimistically see it, they're just gonna pretty much be their bitch for the next 50 years or so until their debt is repaid on paper, maybe even forever, but I don't think they would take that at all.

    I mean just like a "no" and becoming an isolated state like NK as people predict.
    Then the sanctions will stay forever and russia will slowly collapse into civil war as it fragments into smaller states.

  3. #23163
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Then the sanctions will stay forever
    the interesting part about this is they may as well be considered forever sanctions already. No one alive now is looking 50 years ahead and it's made pretty clear no matter how much they kiss ass or display Putin's head on a pyke, no one is going to forgive them for the foreseeable 10 years. And that's what some of them are trying to brown nose for.

    So it collapsing into civil war seems to be an inevitability.

    And also, they don't know how to admit defeat because they have the Spartan philosophy. While I said a hypothetical "if they lose," I don't think Russians will ever surrender.
    Lazarević: Are you a student of history, Mr. Drake? Nathan Drake: ...I've read a book or two. Lazarević: Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot - they were all GREAT men. But do you know why they prevailed? [beat] Because they had the will to do what other men could not. - Uncharted 2

  4. #23164
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post

    And also, they don't know how to admit defeat because they have the Spartan philosophy. While I said a hypothetical "if they lose," I don't think Russians will ever surrender.
    Haha, no. It is not some noble warrior culture spirit that keeps them from surrendering. It is genetically ingrained fear of admitting to being a failure because in russia failures fall from hospital windows into food poisoning from eating too much lead through the back of their head.

  5. #23165
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    the thing is: Why is he so smug and unflappable now, then? Dictators usually fall apart at the seam when they fall into the self-titled trap, but this guy thinks he will still absolutely come out on top.
    WTF are you on about. Every Dictator proudly and smugly proclaims they are winning bigly while their empire crumbles around them.

    As always your takes are the 100% opposite of what happens in reality.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #23166
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Team Putin Admits Their Worst Case Scenario Is Coming True

    Evgeny Buzhinsky, a retired Lieutenant-General of the Russian Armed Forces, claimed that the Ukrainian military is overflowing with American participants: “There are not only advisers, but specialists. I think that there are thousands of American advisers and specialists on the ground in Ukraine, they’re probably present in every unit.”

    During his Wednesday’s radio show, Full Contact, top Kremlin propagandist Vladimir Solovyov—with a noticeably bruised face—surmised: “I’m worried. Naturally, we want for our guys to crush [the other side] and only to advance, but life doesn’t work that way.” Solovyov refused to address the source of his injuries, but in light of Ukrainian military gains, his bruised ego was likewise on full display.
    "we're losing, but it's not fair because secretly the Americans helped Ukraine win and we totally would have won otherwise"


    A weird pivot, but at least they're getting closer to admitting the truth, in that... they seem to have lost.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #23167
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post

    There are meant to be around 10000 Russians in Izyum but almost all are rear echelon support troops with very little combat ability.
    You're saying this as if ther were trrops who had combat abilities.

  8. #23168
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    Russians have finally launched a counter attack in response to the sudden rush of Ukrainian armored infantry. Did they strike at the armored column? Supply depots? Strategic command or communication centers? No.

    They bombed a bunch of civilian buildings in Kharkiv, 30km away from the actual soldiers actually fighting them.

    Because of fucking course they did. Incomptent fucking barbarians continue to attack noncombatants because they get trounced by anyone who fights back. Shit like this is why y'all coming to bat for Russia get relentlessly shat on.
    Last edited by Xyonai; 2022-09-10 at 06:00 AM.

  9. #23169
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    Russians have finally launched a counter attack in response to the sudden rush of Ukrainian armored infantry. Did they strike at the armored column? Supply depots? Strategic command or communication centers? No.

    They bombed a bunch of civilian buildings in Kharkiv, 30km away from the actual soldiers actually fighting them.

    Because of fucking course they did. Incomptent fucking barbarians continue to attack noncombatants because they get trounced by anyone who fights back. Shit like this is why y'all coming to bat for Russia get relentlessly shat on.
    I find it strange when people are worried that russia is running out of "smart" ammunition, because that would lead to more civilian casualties. Like, no, the exact opposite. russia deliberately strikes at civilian targets all the time. If anything, them running out of precision ammunition will lead to less civilian casualties as they can't hit schools and hospitals so accurately anymore.

  10. #23170
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    You're saying this as if ther were trrops who had combat abilities.
    Well, some of them had training in heavy weaponry. The rear echelon one might be able to handle small arms but little more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Kupyansk (or should that be Copeyansk for the Russians) appears to have fallen.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Goncharen...86920597946370

  11. #23171
    Warchief Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Well, some of them had training in heavy weaponry. The rear echelon one might be able to handle small arms but little more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Kupyansk (or should that be Copeyansk for the Russians) appears to have fallen.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Goncharen...86920597946370
    Fallen? No, Liberated, a city falls to the enemy, and is liberated by the original owner or their allies.

    Pedantry aside, 4-5 days? That's what it took?
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-09-10 at 06:58 AM.

  12. #23172
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    the interesting part about this is they may as well be considered forever sanctions already. No one alive now is looking 50 years ahead and it's made pretty clear no matter how much they kiss ass or display Putin's head on a pyke, no one is going to forgive them for the foreseeable 10 years. And that's what some of them are trying to brown nose for.

    So it collapsing into civil war seems to be an inevitability.

    And also, they don't know how to admit defeat because they have the Spartan philosophy. While I said a hypothetical "if they lose," I don't think Russians will ever surrender.
    Oh you're doing so good!

    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  13. #23173
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Whatever happened to the Kremlin's constant threats earlier this year of "scorched earth" should Americans, or any Western foreigners really, be on-field participants in this war? That sounds much more direct than just supplying weapons. That's why I don't believe that general's claim.
    The only westerners participating as combatants are volunteers officially enlisted with the Ukrainian army and not there in an official capacity as part of their own respective nation's military.

    Russia blows a gasket about that of course, but whining like a little bitch about it is all they have.

  14. #23174
    The Lightbringer Hansworst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    WTF are you on about. Every Dictator proudly and smugly proclaims they are winning bigly while their empire crumbles around them.

    As always your takes are the 100% opposite of what happens in reality.
    Yep, Nero was the first recorded one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Let's see how long Tweek will last this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    sorry about late reply; I drink heavily in the mornings.

  15. #23175
    Rob Lee is reporting a Russian channel has said Izyum has surrendered. This isn't him saying it but just reporting on Russian sources.

    Seems unlikely that it has yet but we've said that a number of times the last few days.

  16. #23176
    There are (unconfirmed) rumblings that the Russians have left Izyum. If that's true, it's enormous. It effectively sews up that entire frontline. It does feel like it's a little too early to celebrate though, wasn't Russia supposed to have 10k troops in that region?

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1568502706557296641

    Edit: Sniped! Well played, Corvus.

  17. #23177
    Warchief Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrouded View Post
    There are (unconfirmed) rumblings that the Russians have left Izyum. If that's true, it's enormous. It effectively sews up that entire frontline. It does feel like it's a little too early to celebrate though, wasn't Russia supposed to have 10k troops in that region?

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1568502706557296641

    Edit: Sniped! Well played, Corvus.
    Amount of troops is irrelevant if they do not want to, or are unable to, fight. If these were, as reported, rear echelon troops then they weren't exactly in a position to put up a big resistance, it's better to surrender or retreat in such a situation. No use in laying down your life when you have the chance to survive.

    It remains to be seen how widespread this is but ehm, does this look like the frontline is crumbling?
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-09-10 at 08:49 AM.

  18. #23178
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Izyum just a couple of days ago were pretty far behind the front, relatively speaking. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Russians there were just mostly logistics and support personnel as reported, many of whom wouldn't be all that combat capable.

  19. #23179
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Amount of troops is irrelevant if they do not want to, or are unable to, fight. If these were, as reported, rear echelon troops then they weren't exactly in a position to put up a big resistance, it's better to surrender or retreat in such a situation. No use in laying down your life when you have the chance to survive.

    It remains to be seen how widespread this is but ehm, does this look like the frontline is crumbling?
    Yeah, I agree, but I'm very skeptical about the ability to evacuate 10,000 troops that quickly. From what we've heard, most of them would be going on foot. Sure sounds like the potential for many, many POWs.

  20. #23180
    Warchief Iphie's Avatar
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    russian Telegram channels report russians fled Lyman:

    https://twitter.com/BarracudaVol1/st...31278256799750

    Anyone considered what the effect will be on the Kherson front? I mean the russians can only keep it a secret for so long that the eastern front is crumbling.
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-09-10 at 12:19 PM.

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