Russian invasion of Ukraine

[bladeXcrasher]

its really amazing how a cop kneels on a black mans neck and we get worldwide protests. Putin rolls tanks into Ukraine and nobody does anything.

The fuck are you on about? LMFAO, the delusion on display here.

[Kokolums]

Wikipedia has already altered its map of Ukraine, denoting the areas Putin moved into as in dispute.

[Ashnazg]

its really amazing how a cop kneels on a black mans neck and we get worldwide protests. Putin rolls tanks into Ukraine and nobody does anything.

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im not wrong about everything but DAMN no-one believed the west would just bow down and scrape at Putin's feet in response to him taking part of Ukraine. CNN is barely covering the story on its webpage, just calling it a "Ukrainian crisis" and talking about the pipeline. Its so bizzaro.

West doesn't have the moral high ground to act all sanctimonious about this anymore.

[Reeve]

Do you understand, that eastern Ukraine countries don't want to be part of Ukraine and it's their voluntary choice, that they're going to fight for this choice till death and that western Ukraine is going to use lethal weapons, provided by western countries, to get eastern Ukraine back violently, i.e. via KILLING IT'S OWN CITIZENS? And as ALL citizens are against it, western Ukraine would need to kill ALL eastern Ukraine people to get eastern territories back? What is it, if it's not genocide?

Do you understand, that USA tries to destabilize situation in world again? But back in old times it was far from Europe. It was Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria. But do you understand, that this time it's f***ing Europe???

When the separatists first started this conflict, they controlled the whole Donbas. The Ukrainian military pushed them back to only a third of that territory? Did they kill all the civilians in the territory they recovered? No? There’s your fucking answer.

[Belize]

When the separatists first started this conflict, they controlled the whole Danbas. The Ukrainian military pushed them back to only a third of that territory? Did they kill all the civilians in the territory they recovered? No? There’s your fucking answer.

Ok, but Russian propaganda outlets say they did without evidence, so really it's hard to know who to believe anymore.

[Forogil]

But wouldnt that mean that Russia would have satellite images of that are? And they could release those images easily? Or maybe they did?

Assuming you want the actual facts:

First it was Russians (or possibly Russian-aligned forces) launching it using Russian-provided material:

As for the facts:
It was allegedly cloudy so it's not obvious that you can see much - especially not actual unit insignia.

Russia were asked about such images, but they claim that they don't have the images of that area at that time anymore (they had previously published images from another day). You know "dog ate it"...

The US doesn't say that they have images showing who launched it, but only that they have detected where it was launched from- using missile launch detection systems. The Dutch prosecutors verified that it was consistent with what the US reported - clearly a missile launch detection system is classified.

[Ashnazg]

Bit more "out there" options;
Have turkey close off the bosphorus, blue stream and the gas west line.
All of europe; no flight zones for russian aircraft.
If breached: do not meet and greet to escort away, rather respond to any form of incursion with live missiles.
Look into feasability & benefits of isolating runet, not block; but physically locking russians out, leaving them with an intra net lan of sorts; only connected to former satelites/ russian friendly regimes.

Its not "out there" its basically wet dreams at this point. Turkey will never close Bosphorus to Russia unless they're threatened directly. They'll tell NATO to go fuck themselves.

The rest of that drivel is barely worth responding to, but lets just say that Russia has the means and the will to tank western infrastructure into the ground if necessary as well - including satellites and under sea cables. What do you think the appetite for that looks like in the West?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Germany Suspends Nord Stream2. Big move my Germany. And the right thing to do.

In reply, Dmitry Medvedev acts out like a low level enforcer on the Sopranos.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has issued an order to halt the process of certifying the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. Well. Welcome to the brave new world where Europeans are very soon going to pay €2.000 for 1.000 cubic meters of natural gas!

Just straight up admitting that the obvious take by everyone, that Russia would use this pipeline as a tool for geo-political extortion, was 100% true.

Or maybe that if the cheap Russian supply gets cut, they'll have to compete more with Asia on the LNG market, where the equivalent amount of in BTU costed around $1250 at the end of last year (does it even factor in the LNG terminal costs?). According to what I found, LNG would be at the very least double the price of pipeline gas.

[Forogil]

dude for real, go ourside...

Our side doesn't want him :-)

[PC2]

West doesn't have the moral high ground to act all sanctimonious about this anymore.

Yes it does. Our liberal democratic societies are morally superior to illiberal quasi-democracies.

[Gorsameth]

im not wrong about everything but DAMN no-one believed the west would just bow down and scrape at Putin's feet in response to him taking part of Ukraine. CNN is barely covering the story on its webpage, just calling it a "Ukrainian crisis" and talking about the pipeline. Its so bizzaro.

Really?
This is entirely going as expected. Its the same as when he annexed Crimea. Did you actually think this was going to go different?

It should have gone different, but the West rolling over and showing its belly is absolutely not unexpected.

[Ashnazg]

Yes it does. Our liberal democratic societies are morally superior to illiberal quasi-democracies.

There are countries that are committing numerous breaches of human rights law, engaging in apartheid-like tactics and generally behaving like bad actors that the West has the power to do something about. For example: Saudi Arabia; Israel. Why don't you go do something about them if you're so morally superior?

[Levelfive]

The critical error here is working under the assumption that sanctions are pre-emptive rather than punitive.

Russia has already invaded Ukraine. They made some declaration about parts of another sovereign country wanting to separate and moved in their troops to "help". That's an invasion.

The current wave of sanctions being leveraged is a direct result of current Russian actions, not deterrence for possible future actions.

There's still quite a lot we'd like to discourage Putin from doing to Ukraine, or punish him for, short of going to war. It doesn't have to be right this minute.

"There’s a flurry of commentary this morning arguing that new economic sanctions introduced by the EU, European states individually and perhaps soon the United States in response to yesterday’s events are too weak and show NATO and the EU are somehow going soft. I’d suggest some skepticism with these arguments and a bit more patience. History doesn’t have many one and done moments. Thinking every moment is Munich and Neville Chamberlain mostly makes people dumb. The US/EU/NATO powers here need to find a balance between having a response to yesterday’s events while yet keeping some deterrent in reserve for further escalation.

Yesterday’s recognition of the eastern puppet statelets and the dispatch of Russian ‘peacekeepers’ is both an invasion of Ukrainian territory and also not all that different from what’s happened for the last eight years. Those regions have been outside the central government’s control since 2014/15 and Russian army formations have operated there, just not as openly. I’m not saying these are the right decisions necessarily or what happens tomorrow or next week or anything else.

Just … like I said, history has very few one and done moments. The big threatened invasion hasn’t happened yet. The real goal is still to prevent that. Russia’s approach here can fairly be regarded as a kind of Zeno’s Aggression, keep taking incremental steps which split the difference or fall just a bit short of what merits a full threatened response. Rinse and repeat. It’s complicated. But like I said, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions or be cranking up any appeasement moral dramas just yet."

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...n/l2SBKAlXw74J

[MCMLXXXII]

Not even going to look at german propaganda, something something 2 groups in conflict only suspect one side, cuz that's how investigating works amirate??

You heard it here first guys! Reuters is German/western propaganda. Goebbels would be so proud.

[Kokolums]

Really?
This is entirely going as expected. Its the same as when he annexed Crimea. Did you actually think this was going to go different?

It should have gone different, but the West rolling over and showing its belly is absolutely not unexpected.

NATO rolling troops into poland etc suggested this was going to go different if he moved tanks in.

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Our side doesn't want him :-)

i dont know who you are but i wouldnt be surprised if both of you are on the side creepy side, so im glad not to be a part of that.

[unfilteredJW]

NATO rolling troops into poland etc suggested this was going to go different if he moved tanks in.

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i dont know who you are but i wouldnt be surprised if both of you are on the side creepy side, so im glad not to be a part of that.

Guy with war boner calls others creepy.

[Mihalik]

There are countries that are committing numerous breaches of human rights law, engaging in apartheid-like tactics and generally behaving like bad actors that the West has the power to do something about. For example: Saudi Arabia; Israel. Why don't you go do something about them if you're so morally superior?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Try something new.

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Guy with war boner calls others creepy.

It's not a war boner, it's a CIVIL WAR boner. He just wants to kill liberals.

[Edge-]

im not wrong about everything but DAMN no-one believed the west would just bow down and scrape at Putin's feet in response to him taking part of Ukraine.

When are you shipping out to fight the good fight, eh?

[xmirrors]

When are you shipping out to fight the good fight, eh?

If they aren't liberals and his fellow countrymen I don't think he's interested.

[Gimlix]

Really?
This is entirely going as expected. Its the same as when he annexed Crimea. Did you actually think this was going to go different?

It should have gone different, but the West rolling over and showing its belly is absolutely not unexpected.

How is it showing their belly? Big sanctions that will destroy russian economic, EU/NATO seems quite pissed about the movements and legit are saying they aint looking away anymore. They won't attack or help Ukraine interms of military, but it does seems to have real responsibility if Russia is gonna take Ukraine.