Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Ashnazg]

Yes it does. Our liberal democratic societies are morally superior to illiberal quasi-democracies.

There are countries that are committing numerous breaches of human rights law, engaging in apartheid-like tactics and generally behaving like bad actors that the West has the power to do something about. For example: Saudi Arabia; Israel. Why don't you go do something about them if you're so morally superior?

[Levelfive]

The critical error here is working under the assumption that sanctions are pre-emptive rather than punitive.

Russia has already invaded Ukraine. They made some declaration about parts of another sovereign country wanting to separate and moved in their troops to "help". That's an invasion.

The current wave of sanctions being leveraged is a direct result of current Russian actions, not deterrence for possible future actions.

There's still quite a lot we'd like to discourage Putin from doing to Ukraine, or punish him for, short of going to war. It doesn't have to be right this minute.

"There’s a flurry of commentary this morning arguing that new economic sanctions introduced by the EU, European states individually and perhaps soon the United States in response to yesterday’s events are too weak and show NATO and the EU are somehow going soft. I’d suggest some skepticism with these arguments and a bit more patience. History doesn’t have many one and done moments. Thinking every moment is Munich and Neville Chamberlain mostly makes people dumb. The US/EU/NATO powers here need to find a balance between having a response to yesterday’s events while yet keeping some deterrent in reserve for further escalation.

Yesterday’s recognition of the eastern puppet statelets and the dispatch of Russian ‘peacekeepers’ is both an invasion of Ukrainian territory and also not all that different from what’s happened for the last eight years. Those regions have been outside the central government’s control since 2014/15 and Russian army formations have operated there, just not as openly. I’m not saying these are the right decisions necessarily or what happens tomorrow or next week or anything else.

Just … like I said, history has very few one and done moments. The big threatened invasion hasn’t happened yet. The real goal is still to prevent that. Russia’s approach here can fairly be regarded as a kind of Zeno’s Aggression, keep taking incremental steps which split the difference or fall just a bit short of what merits a full threatened response. Rinse and repeat. It’s complicated. But like I said, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions or be cranking up any appeasement moral dramas just yet."

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...n/l2SBKAlXw74J

[Hansworst]

Not even going to look at german propaganda, something something 2 groups in conflict only suspect one side, cuz that's how investigating works amirate??

You heard it here first guys! Reuters is German/western propaganda. Goebbels would be so proud.

[Kokolums]

Really?
This is entirely going as expected. Its the same as when he annexed Crimea. Did you actually think this was going to go different?

It should have gone different, but the West rolling over and showing its belly is absolutely not unexpected.

NATO rolling troops into poland etc suggested this was going to go different if he moved tanks in.

- - - Updated - - -

Our side doesn't want him :-)

i dont know who you are but i wouldnt be surprised if both of you are on the side creepy side, so im glad not to be a part of that.

[unfilteredJW]

NATO rolling troops into poland etc suggested this was going to go different if he moved tanks in.

- - - Updated - - -



i dont know who you are but i wouldnt be surprised if both of you are on the side creepy side, so im glad not to be a part of that.

Guy with war boner calls others creepy.

[Mihalik]

There are countries that are committing numerous breaches of human rights law, engaging in apartheid-like tactics and generally behaving like bad actors that the West has the power to do something about. For example: Saudi Arabia; Israel. Why don't you go do something about them if you're so morally superior?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Try something new.

- - - Updated - - -

Guy with war boner calls others creepy.

It's not a war boner, it's a CIVIL WAR boner. He just wants to kill liberals.

[Edge-]

im not wrong about everything but DAMN no-one believed the west would just bow down and scrape at Putin's feet in response to him taking part of Ukraine.

When are you shipping out to fight the good fight, eh?

[xmirrors]

When are you shipping out to fight the good fight, eh?

If they aren't liberals and his fellow countrymen I don't think he's interested.

[Gimlix]

Really?
This is entirely going as expected. Its the same as when he annexed Crimea. Did you actually think this was going to go different?

It should have gone different, but the West rolling over and showing its belly is absolutely not unexpected.

How is it showing their belly? Big sanctions that will destroy russian economic, EU/NATO seems quite pissed about the movements and legit are saying they aint looking away anymore. They won't attack or help Ukraine interms of military, but it does seems to have real responsibility if Russia is gonna take Ukraine.

[Ashnazg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Try something new.

The "west" is full of shit when they try to claim moral superiority. That's all there is to it.

[Gimlix]

NATO rolling troops into poland etc suggested this was going to go different if he moved tanks in.

- - - Updated - - -



i dont know who you are but i wouldnt be surprised if both of you are on the side creepy side, so im glad not to be a part of that.

NATO still waits with doing any movements before Russia opens the first fire. Right now Putin is playing it smart but has yet to invade Ukraine. Once he does that it is a whole different story. This is gonna NATO a reason to actually form a proper army and get a proper defense against Russia.

Hell who knows what will happen once we decide to fight back for Ukraine. all tho i doubt that. For now they will just try to destroy economic grow of Russia.

[Mihalik]

The "west" is full of shit when they try to claim moral superiority. That's all there is to it.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Again....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[Azadina]

The "west" is full of shit when they try to claim moral superiority. That's all there is to it.

Sure thing. Certainly beats being full of shit at all times though. That's all there is to it.

[YUPPIE]

am I the only one who feels a lot of living dictators since his death don't actually condemn or dislike him, even in Russia, but admire Adolf Hitler? He lost at the very end, but his feats and near-victory is something people like Putin probably find inspiring and want to emulate while trying to avoid where he failed.

[Crispin]

The "west" is full of shit when they try to claim moral superiority. That's all there is to it.

I’m sure several here, including me, see the west for what it is, full of flaws. That’s however not the topic here.

[PC2]

am I the only one who feels a lot of living dictators since his death don't actually condemn or dislike him, even in Russia, but admire Adolf Hitler? He lost at the very end, but his feats and near-victory is something people like Putin probably find inspiring and want to emulate while trying to avoid where he failed.

Yes because thinking that world leaders are like Hitler and that the 2020s is similar to the 1940s is a result of hyperbole and drama.

[Gorsameth]

How is it showing their belly? Big sanctions that will destroy russian economic, EU/NATO seems quite pissed about the movements and legit are saying they aint looking away anymore. They won't attack or help Ukraine interms of military, but it does seems to have real responsibility if Russia is gonna take Ukraine.

NATO still waits with doing any movements before Russia opens the first fire. Right now Putin is playing it smart but has yet to invade Ukraine. Once he does that it is a whole different story. This is gonna NATO a reason to actually form a proper army and get a proper defense against Russia.

Hell who knows what will happen once we decide to fight back for Ukraine. all tho i doubt that. For now they will just try to destroy economic grow of Russia.

yet to invade Ukraine? He just did.
He did it 8 years ago in Crimea.

Twice he has invaded Ukraine, twice the response from the rest of the world has been pathetic. How many more times does he need to invade before this time we really hit him with harsh sanctions?

How the fuck is this not appeasement. 'Let him have part of Ukraine. Maybe he will stop then, throw some light sanctions at it to make it look like were doing something'.
Oh no, countries won't trade with the 2 new 'peoples republics'. Like we were trading with them before.

A real response ( I assume that is what you meant) if Russia is gonna take the rest of Ukraine? Really? Crimea wasn't it. Donbas wasn't it. Why should I believe the next piece Putin carves off of Ukraine is going to be different? Why does that part demand a response but this part doesn't?

[Calfredd]

am I the only one who feels a lot of living dictators since his death don't actually condemn or dislike him, even in Russia, but admire Adolf Hitler? He lost at the very end, but his feats and near-victory is something people like Putin probably find inspiring and want to emulate while trying to avoid where he failed.

Well you thought there was going to be a war February 16th and when proven wrong, you turned around and said you were right that war is coming tomorrow so yes, you are the only one who feels like that.

[Combatbutler]

Ukraine is pretty much screwed at this point, it isn't valuable enough for the west to actually do something meaningful about it.

[Machismo]

am I the only one who feels a lot of living dictators since his death don't actually condemn or dislike him, even in Russia, but admire Adolf Hitler? He lost at the very end, but his feats and near-victory is something people like Putin probably find inspiring and want to emulate while trying to avoid where he failed.

We should ask you, since those are the qualities you said you wanted.