1. #23861
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Im saving that statement just in case they really have a pants on head moment... Just hope and pray to whatever is out there they dont.
    After the "referendum" all bets are off since Ukraine "attacking" "Russian" territory could be labeled as "existencial threat".

    At that point it is up to Yesmen around Putin to say no for once.

  2. #23862
    The Lightbringer
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    Personally I would accept an actual referdum if it was overseen by a group of neutral observers and Russia withdrew all their troops

  3. #23863
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    After the "referendum" all bets are off since Ukraine "attacking" "Russian" territory could be labeled as "existencial threat".

    At that point it is up to Yesmen around Putin to say no for once.
    Ukraine has already stuck inside Russian territory in the past. Didn't nuke then. won't nuke now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Im saving that statement just in case they really have a pants on head moment... Just hope and pray to whatever is out there they dont.
    I suppose I will be happy if it happens that we are still around to tell me I was wrong.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #23864
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    After the "referendum" all bets are off since Ukraine "attacking" "Russian" territory could be labeled as "existencial threat".

    At that point it is up to Yesmen around Putin to say no for once.
    Why are you turning into Yuppie with this nukes hysteria?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  5. #23865
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    Nazi Germany did have chemical wepons, like Sarin. But did never use it.
    Yeah, because they've been "made aware of" that the Allies had a huge stockpile of chemicals weapons as well and would use them if the Nazis started using it.

    If Russia starts using nukes, then Ukraine likely just has to ask for any weapon system that's not banned by any convention or treaty to receive it.

  6. #23866
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Yeah, because they've been "made aware of" that the Allies had a huge stockpile of chemicals weapons as well and would use them if the Nazis started using it.

    If Russia starts using nukes, then Ukraine likely just has to ask for any weapon system that's not banned by any convention or treaty to receive it.
    Then their occupation of Ukraine will be terminated in extremely swift fashion. West simply cannot afford to let that slide with anything less than moving in, and removing their presence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  7. #23867
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Then their occupation of Ukraine will be terminated in extremely swift fashion. West simply cannot afford to let that slide with anything less than moving in, and removing their presence.
    I do not see the West ever intervening in Ukraine unless Russia makes the first move by directly attacking a Nato member.

    Ukraine is at the end of the day not a Nato member and intervening there would just turn any Nato country into a legitimate military target.

  8. #23868
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I do not see the West ever intervening in Ukraine unless Russia makes the first move by directly attacking a Nato member.

    Ukraine is at the end of the day not a Nato member and intervening there would just turn any Nato country into a legitimate military target.
    If Russia uses a nuke then the west and NATO will have to respond. China probably will as well. Otherwise it opens up the pandora's box of nuclear terrorism and blackmail. Russia can not be allowed to use one to try and blackmail Ukraine and the west at all. The US has made it abundantly clear on a number of occasions to Russia that if they use one there will be serious consequences.

  9. #23869
    Legendary! Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Im saving that statement just in case they really have a pants on head moment... Just hope and pray to whatever is out there they dont.
    I don't think the world would sit idly by if they do. It would be unprecedented for an aggressor, unprovoked, to use a nuclear weapon simply because they are losing. The world can't ignore this, and Russia would need to be put down.

  10. #23870
    The state of some of the weapons being handed out to the newly mobilised is....not great.

  11. #23871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The state of some of the weapons being handed out to the newly mobilised is....not great.
    This almost makes: "Wait till the gun explodes in the hands of the russian.". a valid option for the Ukrainians. Sending out conscripts with this kind of crap should be a crime in and of itself...
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-09-24 at 12:11 PM.

  12. #23872
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    If Russia uses a nuke then the west and NATO will have to respond. China probably will as well.
    They will, but i think by giving Ukraine basically every weapon they want, barring direct aid.
    China and India will very likely cut any ties to Russia, they can currently still weasel around with arguing for talks and compromise, but that goes out the window the second Russia drops nukes on Ukrainian troops.

    Then Russia is isolated from any country that could make a difference, which means that keeping this war going conventionally will be next to impossible, while Ukraine might also start receiving aid from not just the west but pretty much every country.

    My main argument against any interference from the west is the simple fact that i don't see how this is going to end.
    Nato troops in Ukraine push out Russia - then what?
    You have Nato troops on the border to a nation that Nato is at war with which already has shown their willingness to drop nukes.
    At this point, the next logical step would be to go on the offensive and actually overthrow the goverment in Russia to end the threat for good, but that would mean giving Russia every justification to use their entire nuclear arsenal.

    The only way i could see this going well if every country around the globe heeds the call and throws their weight behind it, but even then you'd still need the tech to intercept or disable any nuclear launches on Russia's side, just in case the russian military is willing to carry out the orders to use strategic nukes.

  13. #23873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Plus I am not sure if more boots is exactly what Russia needs. If you are having trouble feeding, clothing, and warming 20 people it only gets harder when you make that 20 a 100. Nukes aren't exactly a weapon you want to use in a war right outside your boarder. It just takes a change in direction of the wind for the weapon being just as effective on you as it was on your enemy.
    The disposables won't have a 0% mortality rate. Before that they are a source of warmth, after that strip the bodies and create layers of clothing. Repurpose them further and you solve the problem entirely. They ARE sending fresh food.
    You just have to act like someone who is dangerously insane, has just been released from prison and told "Bad guys that way, go have fun."
    Coincidentally, Russia has already done just that.
    Last edited by Poopymonster; 2022-09-24 at 01:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  14. #23874
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    After the "referendum" all bets are off since Ukraine "attacking" "Russian" territory could be labeled as "existencial threat".

    At that point it is up to Yesmen around Putin to say no for once.
    Imo the point of the fake referenda isn't to use nukes, it's to let Putin send conscripts into Ukraine since by Russian law they can only be sent inside Russia during times of peace, and he still hasn't declared war.

    He knows Ukraine isn't going to stop attacking even after he declares Kherson and Zaporizhia and Donetsk Oblasts are now part of Russia. So it's put up or shut up.

  15. #23875
    What’s going on in China? Apparently Xi Jinping has been placed under house arrest.

    Not confirmed by any western media so far but interesting developments vis a vis China and Russia’s relationship.

  16. #23876
    The Lightbringer D Luniz's Avatar
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    FFS
    Nukes wont be used by Russia because there is no one to use them on
    Putin WANTS Ukraine, not a poisoned unfarmable wasteland known as the "Ukrainian exclusion zone"
    that leaves NATO, which, is a murder-suicide pact, and if that were Putin's goal, he would have kicked that hornet's nest months ago.

    the nukes threats is mostly in the hopes that he can get the most isolationist groups some political power since both the US (Nov 8th is just 45ish days away) and the UK (new PM is trying to consolidate power) could turn on a dime politically, and without that military supply, Ukraine goes from fighting and winning, to occupied insurgency hoping to one day be free again.
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  17. #23877
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellus1986 View Post
    What’s going on in China? Apparently Xi Jinping has been placed under house arrest.

    Not confirmed by any western media so far but interesting developments vis a vis China and Russia’s relationship.
    I've seen this claim several times now, I have no idea why people imagine Winnie the Pooh would just be arrested...and how is that related to Russia?

    Last time I checked, Xi holds absolute power.

  18. #23878
    The Lightbringer D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    I've seen this claim several times now, I have no idea why people imagine Winnie the Pooh would just be arrested...and how is that related to Russia?

    Last time I checked, Xi holds absolute power.
    to be fair, The Party holds absolute power, they just see Xi's view of where to go as most acceptable. Dont think for a second they wouldn't toss him if they think they need to.
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  19. #23879
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellus1986 View Post
    What’s going on in China? Apparently Xi Jinping has been placed under house arrest.

    Not confirmed by any western media so far but interesting developments vis a vis China and Russia’s relationship.
    Nope, I see nothing. Not counting random YouTube "news" channels, because we know how they operate.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  20. #23880
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    to be fair, The Party holds absolute power, they just see Xi's view of where to go as most acceptable. Dont think for a second they wouldn't toss him if they think they need to.
    I mean China's instability would be big news, just weird to see few of the claims going around the internet past 24 hours, even here.

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