Russian invasion of Ukraine

[jonnysensible]

There is no deterrence option West could use to change situation in Ukraine.

you think Ukraine is going to roll over? russian bodies will pile up how long before your police have to beat up their mothers who are protesting their deaths again?

[Shalcker]

We have no issue sending Russia back to their 90’s economic situation.

And Russia will have no issue sending you back into 70's energy crisis.

No it wont stop Russia doing whatever putin want in Ukraine. But in the end it’s NATO countries security thats the endgame for us, not a non-EU non-NATO member.

You will have none.

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you think Ukraine is going to roll over? russian bodies will pile up how long before your police have to beat up their mothers who are protesting their deaths again?

Western delusions about other countries are funny.

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You're the one here functionally arguing for MAD, so I'm not sure why anyone should take you remotely seriously.

MAD is reality, sanctions are worthless (and have been from the start), one way or another situation will change.

[jonnysensible]

MAD is reality, sanctions are worthless (and have been from the start), one way or another situation will change.

guess you wont mind eating shit loads of sanctions then, bon appetit

[Crispin]

And Russia will have no issue sending you back into 70's energy crisis.

You will have none.

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Western delusions about other countries are funny.

lol cute, same rhetoric as in 2014, you’ll sell us gas or you’ll end up starving, higher prices means we’ll buy elsewhere, where the prices are similiar, leaving Russia without their prime customer within years.

We’re not the suicidal ones tho, but jumping straight to the “but nukes!” Nonsense is rather desperate. Nukes wont happen so just ignore it. We all know that nuking a nuclear power, means you might aswell nuke yourself, I do give you more credit than that.

In the end, we still need your gas for some time, but dont kid yourself https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/en...ade_folder.pdf

[Edge-]

MAD is reality

Again, cheering on the end of humanity on the planet over some trivial border disputes because Putin's domestic polling numbers are garbage is a really, really weird take.

sanctions are worthless (and have been from the start)

I mean, I'm all for sanctioning Russia to the stone age at this point, even if that means many innocent people there will suffer. Maybe things will get bad enough that Putin can no longer cling to authoritarian power and Russia can see yet another revolution, hopefully for some actual democracy this time.

[Shalcker]

Russia has what, 140m population? Compare that to the West. Now reduce from those totals what the casualties may be after both ways nuking, and tell me how badly Russian population is still outnumbered.

What, do you think you'll wake up after nukes and roll into irradiated Moscow for victory parade?

Nukes don't rely on population numbers. MAD is MAD; that you have more only means more will die on your side.

There are enough warheads for everyone.

You can check how many 300kt warheads your city would need here:
https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

[wunksta]

How long before Russia 'liberates' Zaporizhzhia or Kharkiv?

[Crispin]

Again, cheering on the end of humanity on the planet over some trivial border disputes because Putin's domestic polling numbers are garbage is a really, really weird take.



I mean, I'm all for sanctioning Russia to the stone age at this point, even if that means many innocent people there will suffer. Maybe things will get bad enough that Putin can no longer cling to authoritarian power and Russia can see yet another revolution, hopefully for some actual democracy this time.

I dont think that sanctions will change their govt, anymore than bombing nazi germany into oblivion did. Criplling their govt is the best hope imo, and enough.

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What, do you think you'll wake up after nukes and roll into irradiated Moscow for victory parade?

Nukes don't rely on population numbers. MAD is MAD; that you have more only means more will die on your side.

There are enough warheads for everyone.

You can check how many 300kt warheads your city would need here:
https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Hahaha, that “FEAR RUSSIAN NUKES” play is hilarious. No one gives a fuck about your nukes mate, why? Because they wont be used.

[Shalcker]

Again, cheering on the end of humanity on the planet over some trivial border disputes because Putin's domestic polling numbers are garbage is a really, really weird take.

Biden's polling numbers are worse; trying to hold on to "no step back for NATO" just to defend them and midterms after Afghanistan fiasco is just as weird.

On another hand, trying to destroy the country is trying to destroy the country no matter the means. You aren't getting retaliation because existing sanctions are worthless as deterrent, and even could be used as protectionist measure - and because "real" ones will have you suffering anyway.

[Edge-]

Hahaha, that “FEAR RUSSIAN NUKES” play is hilarious. No one gives a fuck about your nukes mate, why? Because they wont be used.

I mean, they'll probably have to ask the Russian mafia for some of their nukes back. If they've remembered where many of them even are.

[Shalcker]

I dont think that sanctions will change their govt, anymore than bombing nazi germany into oblivion did. Criplling their govt is the best hope imo, and enough.
Hahaha, that “FEAR RUSSIAN NUKES” play is hilarious. No one gives a fuck about your nukes mate, why? Because they wont be used.

Noone gives a fuck about your sanctions too - because you'd find a reason to enact them either way.

[Edge-]

Biden's polling numbers are worse

This isn't about Biden, honey. Unless Putin is invading Ukraine because of Biden which would be...really weird?

trying to hold on to "no step back for NATO" just to defend them and midterms after Afghanistan fiasco is just as weird.

Why do you think this is about anything relating to the US midterms? Unless that's why Putin invaded when he did, which is weird for Russia to invade another country to impact the domestic elections of a third country.

You aren't getting retaliation because existing sanctions are worthless as deterrent, and even could be used as protectionist measure

Man, the self-delusion is fuckin real.

[Shalcker]

This isn't about Biden, honey. Unless Putin is invading Ukraine because of Biden which would be...really weird?

Have you even watched news last few months? It was about Biden's - and US - position on NATO expansion all along. You know, stuff Westerners called "ridiculous demands".

Once it was obvious you don't want to budge on that there were no other real options remaining.

[Gorsameth]

How long before Russia 'liberates' Zaporizhzhia or Kharkiv?

somewhere between mere days and a few years.

[Crispin]

Noone gives a fuck about your sanctions too - because you'd find a reason to enact them either way.

Uhm no, dont kid yourself, the sanctions are a result of Russian actions, I know you’re fed the “buuh huuh poor Russian bear the west are bullies”, but ask yourself why they arent put in to effect befpre you invaded Ukraine even further.

[Shalcker]

Uhm no, dont kid yourself, the sanctions are a result of Russian actions, I know you’re fed the “buuh huuh poor Russian bear the west are bullies”, but ask yourself why they arent put in to effect befpre you invaded Ukraine even further.

Russian actions are result of Western actions; it's all intertwined.

[Crispin]

Russian actions are result of Western actions; it's all intertwined.

That was not what your master said, he said that Ukraine is not a real country. Stick with the narrative comrade.

[jonnysensible]

Russian actions are result of Western actions; it's all intertwined.

nonsense you are looking for a boogeyman. Russia used chemical weapons twice on my country and now its viciously inflicting its will on another because Putin feels Russia is the great victim of history.

[Canpinter]

Russian actions are result of Western actions; it's all intertwined.

Totally agree, Ukraine had the audacity to not be already fully invaded by Russia, so Russia had to respond to that. they where totally provoked into it.

/s

[Reeve]

Have you even watched news last few months? It was about Biden's - and US - position on NATO expansion all along. You know, stuff Westerners called "ridiculous demands".

Once it was obvious you don't want to budge on that there were no other real options remaining.

They always had the option to, you know, respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of their neighbors.