Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gabriel]

That's an assumption, albeit a reasonable one. I still prefer to think that most people, even russians, would not be that callous.

While completely understandable, ryssäviha should not be our guiding principle. I know I'm guilty of it, a week or two ago in Helsinki I ran into a bunch of girls having a hen party, and I felt the hatred rise. Their crime? They spoke russian, that's it, they were polite, didn't make a nuisance of themselves, weren't drunk, all they did was speak russian to eachother and that was enough for me to hate them. As a person of colour I should know better, and I acknowledge my failings there. (That's not to say russian tourists should be allowed to come here for the foreseeable future.)

It is not ryssäviha, it is russorealism stemming from interacting with russians and watching this war from the sidelines. Yes, they are human beings just as you and me, deserving all the same respect.

But just remember; if you get backstabbed by a russian, it is your own fault for giving them the opportunity to do so.

[Lahis]

Fkin joke Russia can still sit at UN table and veto stuff.

If there were any doubts before that UN is worthless organization, there shouldn't be anymore.

[enigma77]

The Ukrainians are saying there are around five thousand Russians trapped in the Lyman pocket. It'd be the worst disaster of the war for the Russians if true.

big if true, the pigs are gonna have a feast

they might get sick though, orc meat must be hard to stomach

[Corvus]

Sounds like the Russians have or are pulling out of Lyman and are running a gauntlet of artillery and SOF units to try and make it to safety. There is video of trails of dead russians and the burned out civilian vehicles they tried to flee in. Also a transcript from one of those who fought along the Kreminna-Lyman road during the night. It was slaughter more than a battle - they ran out of ammo killing russians and by the sounds of it, it left all of them n the units traumatised by it. These guys are going to need a lot of help for PTSD issues after the war.

[Azadina]

It is not ryssäviha, it is russorealism stemming from interacting with russians and watching this war from the sidelines. Yes, they are human beings just as you and me, deserving all the same respect.

But just remember; if you get backstabbed by a russian, it is your own fault for giving them the opportunity to do so.

Well, I do not support a pillaging horde of raping terrorists. Significant portion of Russian speakers here DO. No one automatically deserves respect regardless of their actions. It's something to be earned.

[Iphie]

Well, I do not support a pillaging horde of raping terrorists. Significant portion of Russian speakers here DO. No one automatically deserves respect regardless of their actions. It's something to be earned.

Not regardless of actions, no, but if you don't know anything about someone beyond nationality, name etc. Then a certain base level is assumed, right?

Also, that transcript is not a nice read. I repeat my previous statement of "what a senseless waste". What strikes me though is that the Ukrainians actually appear to want to help the wounded but are unable to do with the supplies they have.

[Azadina]

Not regardless of actions, no, but if you don't know anything about someone beyond nationality, name etc. Then a certain base level is assumed, right?

Also, that transcript is not a nice read. I repeat my previous statement of "what a senseless waste". What strikes me though is that the Ukrainians actually appear to want to help the wounded but are unable to do with the supplies they have.

To put it up in understandable wow terms:

That Base level in the case of Ruskies these days start at Hostile, rather than Unfriendly or even Neutral. Up to each one to rep it up to Neutral and above by their actions.

[Gabriel]

Well, I do not support a pillaging horde of raping terrorists. Significant portion of Russian speakers here DO. No one automatically deserves respect regardless of their actions. It's something to be earned.

I wasn't talking about that kind of respect.

[Iphie]

russia is apparently withdrawing from Lyman

[Corvus]

russia is apparently withdrawing from Lyman

By withdraw they mean a rout that left hundreds of Russians dead and many taken prisoner as well.

[zealo]

russia is apparently withdrawing from Lyman

Another "gesture of good will", no doubt

With how the situation have been developing there they're already cut off, with the rest on a rout.

[Iphie]

By withdraw they mean a rout that left hundreds of Russians dead and many taken prisoner as well.

Yeaaah...but those are details! It's an orderly withdrawal totally NOT inspired by being pummeled for days...

I read the transcript, it's terrible, I know.

[Makabreska]

How did they leave if the city was encircled?

[jonnysensible]

How did they leave if the city was encircled?

there was a road out towards Kremmina but it was in Ukrainian artillery range so it probably wasn't a fun exit.

[Poopymonster]

How did they leave if the city was encircled?

You always leave the enemy a path out. No matter how small, no matter how dangerous, leave them a path out. If they think they can escape, they'll try. Shooting them running is more efficient than trying to shoot them while they shoot back.

[Iphie]

You always leave the enemy a path out. No matter how small, no matter how dangerous, leave them a path out. If they think they can escape, they'll try. Shooting them running is more efficient than trying to shoot them while they shoot back.

Bit like Sun Tzu, eh? "Always leave your enemy a golden bridge to retreat over.", though in this case it's less of a golden bridge and more a case of: "run and we won't shoot you...too much."

[zealo]

there was a road out towards Kremmina but it was in Ukrainian artillery range so it probably wasn't a fun exit.

That, and encirclements are rarely so airtight absolutely no one inside can slip through the enemy line they're behind.

[Slant]

Fkin joke Russia can still sit at UN table and veto stuff.

Since that stuff is being vomitted all over Reddit, I'll take this opportunity to put my thoughts in a place where people might actually be able to keep up attention for more than one sentence.

It's not a joke. The UN Security Council is not the world government. It's not a mediation place. It's not a court of justice. It's purpose is not to bring justice to a country, or protect any country from any other country (although it sometimes takes on that role, god knows why).

The one and only purpose of the SC is to prevent WW3. And that is why Russia is sitting at the table and that is why Russia has a veto. It is the last place where diplomacy reigns and the US and Russia can still talk to each other, even if all direct lines are cut, if all ambassadors have been recalled/ejected. The SC council is the last place where both sides can talk about nukes and how not to use them.

And that is why a veto in the SC exists. So any party with a veto can prevent any action they do not like, no reasons necessary. If that veto doesn't exist, both the US and Russia would most likely walk. What good is a security council with only Europeans and China sitting at the table?

Once you understand that the UN in general and the SC in particular are NOT governmental replacements but purely diplomatic institutions, you'll be able to move on from the question that seems to haunt the internet once more: Why isn't the UN doing anything? Cos that's not what the UN's purpose is. It's a diplomatic forum, nothing else. It's - strictly speaking - barely a political forum, although politics basically encompasses everything in daily life. So let me be more precise, it's not a political instrument for governing anyone. Least of all Western nations that require democratic principles to be involved when authority is exercised. The lack of democratic principles is the core reason why the UN has zero authority, by the way.

And yes, they do take votes, but nothing in the UN is elected by the people. Any people. Because it is just diplomacy, nothing else.

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Setting aside feelings of: "It's their own fault for being there", you can't help but shake your head at the senseless waste here. I mean this sounds like a scared kid.

It's not a waste. Russian families back home are paying the price. And so far, it seems the price is not steep enough to make them rethink their shitty life choices. They need to pay more.

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I mean there is a difference in hating random russians and hating a russian soldier who would have done the exact same thing he is terrified off if he had the chance because he is invading a country.

The overwhelming majority in Russia still supports this war, there are no "random russians" anymore. They've had ample time and opportunity to change their attitudes. Meanwhile, we still have recordings of wives not batting an eyelid at the horrible things their husbands do. Mothers telling their sons to not be "one-sided" when they tell them what's really going on in Ukraine. There are no innocents in Russia.

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Yeaaah...but those are details! It's an orderly withdrawal totally NOT inspired by being pummeled for days...

I read the transcript, it's terrible, I know.

Only thing terrible about it is that an American had to endure that shit because of Russia's actions.

[Iphie]

@Slant

Thank you for articulating that WAY better than I ever could, because it was definitely getting to me. I'd rather russia stays put in the UN than outside of it.

[Biglog]

One anecdotal thing reflecting the previous point about the Russian public supporting the war has been the Russians on holiday in Crimea. To start, they must realize the beach and ground they are vacationing on is stolen land. And secondly, the juxtaposition of them in swim trunks and suntanning while enjoying the beach is jarring as a war with violence and war crimes being committed against Ukrainian civilians not far away. In some cases with bombs and artillery going off within eyesight or earshot. There are Russian civilians in opposition to it, but they seem like a very outnumbered minority.

I do think the UN's purpose is a bit wider than just preventing WW3 though. It's really a forum to discuss all threats to humanity. WW3 is an obvious one. But there are others like natural disasters and human rights, and that's why those are a big part of their discussions and funding. UN Peacekeepers have also played an important role in maintaining peace in smaller regional conflicts. Ironically WW3 is the thing the UN is least capable of preventing, since any veto-holding country can go rogue as Russia has and it becomes completely ineffective. The League of Nations that preceded it was ineffective for similar reasons of having no teeth. The UN is better than nothing and helps prevent smaller conflicts, but in situations like this it is little more than a place to air grievances when a veto-holding country is emulating Germany in WW2 and doesn't care if 98% of the other UN members speak out against their actions.

If anything it's almost counter-productive to preventing WW3 in these instances, since Russia is telling other nations they are going to veto anything denouncing their invasion of Ukraine. So they are saying nothing will ever pass anyway so don't vote against us, or else it will be noted with vague threats of 'consequences'. It's a bit like the Ukrainian civilians 'voting' in the sham referendums to join Russia, where voting was at gunpoint and the names of anyone that voted no were written down by a Russian soldier. Memories of Soviet elections with 1 candidate and 99% approval.