Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Strawberry]

I think it's time NATO starts giving Ukraine some long range missiles, and I mean LONG range missiles, russia needs to be punished with a long range missile strike everytime they do this.

Yeah, good luck with that. It will never happen. The world won't respond with military even if Russia drops a nuke on Kyiv.
There would be hell, Putin would lose all his allies, the world would protest and everyone would cut ties with Russia, but there would be no "invasion on Russia". No military act.
They have nukes in other countries, ships, submarines, not just inside Russia. No other country would risk eating a nuke in a major city. Putin is untouchable by the west and he knows it.

[enigma77]

Yeah, good luck with that. It will never happen. The world won't respond with military even if Russia drops a nuke on Kyiv.
There would be hell, Putin would lose all his allies, the world would protest and everyone would cut ties with Russia, but there would be no "invasion on Russia". No military act.
They have nukes in other countries, ships, submarines, not just inside Russia. No other country would risk eating a nuke in a major city. Putin is untouchable by the west and he knows it.

Say what?

/10what

[Iphie]

Yeah, good luck with that. It will never happen. The world won't respond with military even if Russia drops a nuke on Kyiv.
There would be hell, Putin would lose all his allies, the world would protest and everyone would cut ties with Russia, but there would be no "invasion on Russia". No military act.
They have nukes in other countries, ships, submarines, not just inside Russia. No other country would risk eating a nuke in a major city. Putin is untouchable by the west and he knows it.

He's not. If he nukes Kyiv, russia will be glass, that's what he knows.

Now I agree that short of a nuke the West is unlikely to provide long range weaponry but putin is far from untouchable.

[Flurryfang]

He's not. If he nukes Kyiv, russia will be glass, that's what he knows.

Now I agree that short of a nuke the West is unlikely to provide long range weaponry but putin is far from untouchable.

If Putin nukes Kyiv, the rest of the world is not gonna retaliate. The primary focus is gonna stop a cascade effect and everybody will be afraid to start retaliation upon retaliation.

So yeah, Russia could nuke Ukraine for free, but then again, what would it do? If they nuke Kyiv, it will only push the front lines to be even more aggresive and zealous to get retaliation back, yet if they nuke the front lines, Russia will end up destroying more of themselves than what they do Ukraine.

[Lahis]

If Putin nukes Kyiv, the rest of the world is not gonna retaliate. The primary focus is gonna stop a cascade effect and everybody will be afraid to start retaliation upon retaliation.

So yeah, Russia could nuke Ukraine for free, but then again, what would it do? If they nuke Kyiv, it will only push the front lines to be even more aggresive and zealous to get retaliation back, yet if they nuke the front lines, Russia will end up destroying more of themselves than what they do Ukraine.

World needs to retaliate if Russia uses nukes.

It shouldn't be with nukes for obvious reasons, but Russia needs to be destroyed with conventional weapons. Otherwise nuking civilians will become totally acceptable conduct of war.

[Gorsameth]

If Putin nukes Kyiv, the rest of the world is not gonna retaliate. The primary focus is gonna stop a cascade effect and everybody will be afraid to start retaliation upon retaliation.

So yeah, Russia could nuke Ukraine for free, but then again, what would it do? If they nuke Kyiv, it will only push the front lines to be even more aggresive and zealous to get retaliation back, yet if they nuke the front lines, Russia will end up destroying more of themselves than what they do Ukraine.

If you think the world would allow Russia to open the nuclear Pandora's box then you really haven't been paying attention.

[Makabreska]

World needs to retaliate if Russia uses nukes.

It shouldn't be with nukes for obvious reasons, but Russia needs to be destroyed with conventional weapons. Otherwise nuking civilians will become totally acceptable conduct of war.

I mean, if you try that, then Russia will shoot more nukes. So I don't think that's probable.

Putler has back against the wall. Ukraince advance keeps going on and bridge bombing was a huge humiliation. So he answers in the only way he knows and can. Targetting civilians.

- - - Updated - - -

If you think the world would allow Russia to open the nuclear Pandora's box then you really haven't been paying attention.

How are they gonna prevent first strike? Cats out of the bag after first launch.


And now Lukashenko announces deployment of joint forces with Russia. Shit's escalating fast.

[Gorsameth]

How are they gonna prevent first strike? Cats out of the bag after first launch.

You prevent a first strike by repeatedly explaining the concept of MAD, even if the response would be non-nuclear, and that striking first will definitely mean the end of you and everything you hold dear.

[Makabreska]

You prevent a first strike by repeatedly explaining the concept of MAD, even if the response would be non-nuclear, and that striking first will definitely mean the end of you and everything you hold dear.

Do we really think that other powers would respond in kind if Russia nukes Ukraine?

[Nymrohd]

If Russia uses nukes and no one does anything, what is stopping Pakistan from doing the same?

[Makabreska]

If Russia uses nukes and no one does anything, what is stopping Pakistan from doing the same?

Well, other countries WILL do something about it. I just really doubt they will send their nukes flying. And India apparently has their own.

[Gorsameth]

Do we really think that other powers would respond in kind if Russia nukes Ukraine?

As I said, the response doesn't have to be nuclear per-se but yes I do believe that. No one, absolutely no one wants to wake up in a world where the use of nuclear weapons is 'acceptable' as anything but an absolutely last resort against an existential threat.

[Flurryfang]

If you think the world would allow Russia to open the nuclear Pandora's box then you really haven't been paying attention.

Allow? What do you mean allow? Its not like he is gonna come out and openly say, that he will do it. If a nuke is ever used in the Ukrainian war, it will be sudden and without warning, and nobody outside of russia will have been able to stop it.

Will he be allowed to use a 2nd or more? Thats a different question, but he can open that box whenever he wants.

[Lahis]

Do we really think that other powers would respond in kind if Russia nukes Ukraine?

If they don't, it is free pass to any dictator to start dropping nukes on dissidents.

[Flurryfang]

World needs to retaliate if Russia uses nukes.

It shouldn't be with nukes for obvious reasons, but Russia needs to be destroyed with conventional weapons. Otherwise nuking civilians will become totally acceptable conduct of war.

And who would do it? Who would be ready to start a nuclear war? If "the World" retaliates against russia, it will without a doubt deal to further retaliation from Russia, and that leads to retaliation from the world and.....We both know where this leads.

And if the world retaliates with something else but nukes, it will still be somewhat the same. If Russia uses 1 nuke and gets attacked by the world, unless there is a near instant rebellion in the army, it will just lead to russia using more nukes. Sure, there will only be one side of the conflict that uses nukes in that scenario, but i don't think it is that brighter of a scenario.

[Makabreska]

If they don't, it is free pass to any dictator to start dropping nukes on dissidents.

This is not a binary thing, when you either retaliate with nukes or don't retaliate at all. USA won't start dropping their warheads on Russia if a third country takes a hit, they will simply put a much tighter sanction squeeze on them with the rest of the world.

[Gorsameth]

And who would do it? Who would be ready to start a nuclear war? If "the World" retaliates against russia, it will without a doubt deal to further retaliation from Russia, and that leads to retaliation from the world and.....We both know where this leads.

And if the world retaliates with something else but nukes, it will still be somewhat the same. If Russia uses 1 nuke and gets attacked by the world, unless there is a near instant rebellion in the army, it will just lead to russia using more nukes. Sure, there will only be one side of the conflict that uses nukes in that scenario, but i don't think it is that brighter of a scenario.

Congratulations, you have discovered the problem with MAD. If someone is crazy enough to not care the world dies.
Its a pretty big flaw, but the other option is that nuclear weapons are an acceptable means of warfare, and again, no one wants that.
So we put our faith in the fact that no one is crazy enough to test MAD.

[Lahis]

This is not a binary thing when you either retaliate with nukes or don't retaliate at all. USA won't start dropping their warheads on Russia if a third country takes a hit, they will simply put a much tighter sanction squeeze on them with the rest of the world.

I have never said we should retaliate with nukes.
We need to use every other weapon to bomb the shit out of Russia for the next three generations.

[Flurryfang]

Congratulations, you have discovered the problem with MAD. If someone is crazy enough to not care the world dies.
Its a pretty big flaw, but the other option is that nuclear weapons are an acceptable means of warfare, and again, no one wants that.
So we put our faith in the fact that no one is crazy enough to test MAD.

Thats the thing. We are maybe at a point, where "somebody" is that crazy, that they think there is something to gain from a nuke. With russia being ready to set themselves so much apart from major parts of the world willingly, it might be a reality, that the idea of nuking is also well alive in the russian leadership, as an out of the crisis happening in the west.

[Gorsameth]

Thats the thing. We are maybe at a point, where "somebody" is that crazy, that they think there is something to gain from a nuke. With russia being ready to set themselves so much apart from major parts of the world willingly, it might be a reality, that the idea of nuking is also well alive in the russian leadership, as an out of the crisis happening in the west.

Russia has been shouting they will use nukes since forever.
Trump has probably come closer to wanting to press the button then Putin.
No I'm not worried in the slightest that he will actually go through with it.