Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Canpinter]

Why would there need to be a ceasefire once they push Russia out of Ukraine?

Because the only other options are A. a never ending skirmish on the boarder or B. An unofficial ceasefire that leaves the entire area a powderkeg ready to go off the first time a private on watch gets a bit jumpy.

Ukraine negotiating a ceasefire from a strong position gives a measure of stability and hopefully let's them get some of their kidnaped citizens back.

[Nymrohd]

Because the only other options are A. a never ending skirmish on the boarder or B. An unofficial ceasefire that leaves the entire area a powderkeg ready to go off the first time a private on watch gets a bit jumpy.

Ukraine negotiating a ceasefire from a strong position gives a measure of stability and hopefully let's them get some of their kidnaped citizens back.

I kind of expect a demilitarized zone in the Ukraine/Russian border.

[Canpinter]

Obviously, but expecting Russia to actually take attempts at that seriously before they've been fully ejected from Ukrainian soil is being naive.

Agreed but plenty of people here have been saying no negotiating ever as if that's a realistic option long term.

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I kind of expect a demilitarized zone in the Ukraine/Russian border.

Sure but that kind of set up doesn't happen without negotiating between the two countries.

[Fugus]

Has there been something major happened within the last 16 hours? Wasn't expecting to see this many posts added since I left unless Shlacker came back or someone like him.

[Nymrohd]

Has there been something major happened within the last 16 hours? Wasn't expecting to see this many posts added since I left unless Shlacker came back or someone like him.

Waffles. But more importantly, Belarus is joining the fray and Russia decided to react to the bridge by murdering a lot of civilians and targeting civilian infrastructure.

[Saradain]

Has there been something major happened within the last 16 hours? Wasn't expecting to see this many posts added since I left unless Shlacker came back or someone like him.

Just Russia bombarding fully civilian targets in retaliation of Ukraine striking at a military target. And some...people glorifying and being happy about the ukrainian civilians dying. The usual MMO-C standard.

[Makabreska]

Has there been something major happened within the last 16 hours? Wasn't expecting to see this many posts added since I left unless Shlacker came back or someone like him.

I mean, all you have to do is fire up any media outlet.

[zorkuus]

Because the only other options are A. a never ending skirmish on the boarder or B. An unofficial ceasefire that leaves the entire area a powderkeg ready to go off the first time a private on watch gets a bit jumpy.

Ukraine negotiating a ceasefire from a strong position gives a measure of stability and hopefully let's them get some of their kidnaped citizens back.

The nazi putler regime has clearly shown their signatures on paper are worth less than shit.
Only an idiot would negotiate with them at this point.

[Fugus]

So Russia being Russia. The Belarus thing is new though but not unexpected.

Hopefully them joining the fray means that others will join on Ukraine's part.

And @Makabreska I do look at the news some, but a lot of my stuff comes from here because many of these people find it before I can even think about it and post links. Just knew I went to bed last night and when I got up this page had like 5+ new pages so figured something new happened.

[Iphie]

Why would there need to be a ceasefire once they push Russia out of Ukraine?

To formally end hostilities, it may sound silly but the formality of it is kinda needed, otherwise you end up with a North Korea-South Korea situation where they've never signed a peace treaty or russia -Japan after WWII.

Obviously all this is AFTER russia is expelled, and after putin leaves.

[Canpinter]

To formally end hostilities, it may sound silly but the formality of it is kinda needed, otherwise you end up with a North Korea-South Korea situation where they've never signed a peace treaty or russia -Japan after WWII.

Obviously all this is AFTER russia is expelled, and after putin leaves.

Hell even north and south Korea have a ceasefire.

[zorkuus]

To formally end hostilities, it may sound silly but the formality of it is kinda needed, otherwise you end up with a North Korea-South Korea situation where they've never signed a peace treaty or russia -Japan after WWII.

Obviously all this is AFTER russia is expelled, and after putin leaves.

You can sign all sorts of deals with ruZZkiland, doesn't mean they will honor it.

[Nymrohd]

Hell even north and south Korea have a ceasefire.

Which South Korea NEVER signed.

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To formally end hostilities, it may sound silly but the formality of it is kinda needed, otherwise you end up with a North Korea-South Korea situation where they've never signed a peace treaty or russia -Japan after WWII.

Obviously all this is AFTER russia is expelled, and after putin leaves.

I don't see them signing it though. Forget reparations, they would be requesting sanction relief. After the last series of bombings we should be moving to harsher sanctions (e.g. medical supplies).

And honestly there should be a massive team set up by multiple nations whose job is to find Putin's wealth and seize it.

[Iphie]

You can sign all sorts of deals with ruZZkiland, doesn't mean they will honor it.

The current leadership, no you can't no. But that doesn't mean there will never be a leadership who can be trusted. (Doubtful for the foreseeable future, but then again most politicians have trustworthiness issues.)

In any case I wouldn't turn my back on russians any time soon.

I don't see them signing it though. Forget reparations, they would be requesting sanction relief. After the last series of bombings we should be moving to harsher sanctions (e.g. medical supplies).

And honestly there should be a massive team set up by multiple nations whose job is to find Putin's wealth and seize it.

Look I don't have all the answers either, but I do know how these things tend to end: at the negotiation table. (And frankly since that is the case we should just dispense with the nasty business of shooting at eachother.) Unfortunately russia is a bad faith actor.

Edit: In this case a negotiation is definitely needed as an unconditional surrender from either side is very unlikely.

[zorkuus]

Edit: In this case a negotiation is definitely needed

Why? The minimum requirement from fascist ruSSia will be for Ukraine to officially cease land to them (and maybe other internartional actors to recognise them as russian land too). I know it, you know it.
The Ukrainians will never sign that, and they shouldn't.
If you cannot get past that first hurdle in the negotiations (and you can't), then the negotiation will be entirely pointless.
ANY negotiation in this case would favor ruZZia. None would favor Ukraine.

[Corvus]

The experts are all saying the same thing, that there is zero evidence russia has changed any of their wargoals (ie the complete destruction of Ukraine as a people and culture) and any ceasefire would simply be used to rebuild their forces to continue that goal.

[YUPPIE]

Things are looking really grim for Ukraine since Russia has taken off the false pretenses and "kid's gloves" after the bridge assault. As much as people don't want to hear it, the fact they can bomb civilians and infrastructure with impunity while the world doesn't do much of anything meaningful puts Ukraine in a compromising situation - because Ukraine can't strike at Moscow in any capacity in retaliation.

I'm not going to mention Russia's ace in the hole directly, but you all have to understand how much of a tactical advantage Putin and Moscow have in that they cannot be attacked directly AT ALL while they're free to bombard Ukraine by comparison with impunity. That's why I think Russia is winning so far. Also the fact Russia has warned that Ukraine is to never receive air defense support and we've cowed to that pretty much.

Also, they have the full backing of Iran, at least that much is confirmed with the presence of their drones. And Hungary, India, Serbia, and China for moderate support.

[Yunru]

Has there been something major happened within the last 16 hours? Wasn't expecting to see this many posts added since I left unless Shlacker came back or someone like him.

Not much. Ukraine citys got attacked by rockets and germany send the anti-rocket system.

[Corvus]

And a totally wrong take as usual. They squandered a large number of 2+ million dollar missiles of which they had largely stopped using because they had limited numbers left for a hissy fit.

There is a reason they had turned to Iranian drones and that because their missile sticks are low.

[Saradain]

Things are looking really grim for Ukraine since Russia has taken off the false pretenses and "kid's gloves" after the bridge assault. As much as people don't want to hear it, the fact they can bomb civilians and infrastructure with impunity while the world doesn't do much of anything meaningful puts Ukraine in a compromising situation - because Ukraine can't strike at Moscow in any capacity in retaliation.

I'm not going to mention Russia's ace in the hole directly, but you all have to understand how much of a tactical advantage Putin and Moscow have in that they cannot be attacked directly AT ALL while they're free to bombard Ukraine by comparison with impunity. That's why I think Russia is winning so far.

Also, they have the full backing of Iran, at least that much is confirmed with the presence of their drones. And Hungary, India, Serbia, and China for moderate support.

Russia is still doing the same thing as before. Don't know how you manage to twist it into something new and worse. Such is the manner of a defensive war. You kill until the enemy no longer exists. Ukraine certainly is busy killing invaders instead of trying to bombard Russia proper. After all, it is Russia which kills innocents, not Ukraine.