1. #24981
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    but I mentioned the Iran revolt. They're just getting slaughtered right now, and no one in the West is going to help them.
    The problem is IF the west would send help, that help would be used by the regime saying "look the west wants to kill us all and invade us"

  2. #24982
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    We're not talking about a conquered people. We're talking about the citizens who were active contributers to the Reich, and the members of the Wehrmacht, the active German military. And yes; a lot of French citizens became collaborators, for the reasons you're denying.

    They were Nazis. All of them. Unless they were betraying that Reich in some form of resistance, whether violent or quiet.

    That's what the word means.

    Pushing anything else is ahistorical mythologizing that's generally been done to deny the responsibility for Nazi crimes against humanity falling on those who perpetrated them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_o...lean_Wehrmacht

    It doesn't mean you had to be trying to murder Nazis. Hiding Jewish families, getting them papers to get them out of the Reich, performing poorly in factory work to harm the industrial machine serving the war, there were myriad ways Germans resisted the Nazis. If you just went along, though, yes. You were a Nazi. That's what the word means.
    You still realize that still does not mean that they were all nazis ? Again, words have meaning and a certain historical weight.

  3. #24983
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    You still realize that still does not mean that they were all nazis ? Again, words have meaning and a certain historical weight.
    You're just playing defense for Nazis at this point, and it's both gross and wildly off-topic. I'm not engaging further.


  4. #24984
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're just playing defense for Nazis at this point, and it's both gross and wildly off-topic. I'm not engaging further.
    Yes, you are right about that one point, you are derailing the topic.

  5. #24985
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,963
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I'm not arguing the legality of it, but the morality. You are probably right about the legality tho.
    There's been libraries written about the mortality of this. The conclusion is still open. (Morality seems a bit fluid, ain't it grand.)

    I don't disagree that you can question the morality of it but this is exactly why circumstances are important. Just you and me? Eh...you threatening to harm my child unless I do what you say? I'll comply, no questions asked, just don't hurt my kid. Am I an amoral person or a PoS? No, you just found the right buttons to push.

    People are so quick to judge others when they don't know the circumstances that lead to their current situation.

    I suspect that our opinions aren't too far apart, we just don't totally agree on the conclusion.

  6. #24986
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're just playing defense for Nazis at this point, and it's both gross and wildly off-topic. I'm not engaging further.
    While I agree with your initial point, this nazi tangent isn’t helping you much man =P

    Sure, not all russians are causing the war. They do bear responsibility for it coming to pass though, even if they’re not the ones directly in charge.

    Difference between being responsible, and being accountable.

  7. #24987
    4 days on and, despite Russian propaganda, it seems there has still been no train traffic over the Kerch bridge. Which means next to no supplies for the southern front for Russia.

  8. #24988
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Continent of Orsterra
    Posts
    12,397
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    4 days on and, despite Russian propaganda, it seems there has still been no train traffic over the Kerch bridge. Which means next to no supplies for the southern front for Russia.
    No shit. There is no way to repair a damage in a single day. Its pretty sad that stupid national tv here reports this without checking the sources (but i mean my country is still run with old commines so yeah).

    Makes you wonder if belarus placing soldiers to attack is true also. You just cant trust the media this days.
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  9. #24989
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    There's been libraries written about the mortality of this. The conclusion is still open. (Morality seems a bit fluid, ain't it grand.)

    I don't disagree that you can question the morality of it but this is exactly why circumstances are important. Just you and me? Eh...you threatening to harm my child unless I do what you say? I'll comply, no questions asked, just don't hurt my kid. Am I an amoral person or a PoS? No, you just found the right buttons to push.

    People are so quick to judge others when they don't know the circumstances that lead to their current situation.

    I suspect that our opinions aren't too far apart, we just don't totally agree on the conclusion.
    It is different story when you are protecting someone else. Just yourself tho? Not that murky.

  10. #24990
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    3,443
    While i'm getting being annoyed at Yuppie, maybe dial the virtue signaling back a bit?

    Everyone who is not actively protesting Putin is a supporter of the war? Just fleeing the country is not enough? If you dont protest 24/7 after fleeing you're secretly for the war (compared to - idk - getting your life in a row AFTER FLEEING TO A FUCKING FOREIGN COUNTRY and leaving your ordered life behind???)

    So i suppose all of you spouting this are writing from the battlefields in Ukraine where the serve as volunteers? I hope you follow the morals you measure others with.

  11. #24991
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Just fleeing the country is not enough?
    For a lot of people this is fine. But we've had at least one poster here who came crying about how they had to flee russia because of mobilization, when for the previous several years they'd been openly supporting the RF's war in ukraine. Fleeing the country doesn't mean you don't support RF's atrocities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  12. #24992
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    3,443
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    For a lot of people this is fine. But we've had at least one poster here who came crying about how they had to flee russia because of mobilization, when for the previous several years they'd been openly supporting the RF's war in ukraine. Fleeing the country doesn't mean you don't support RF's atrocities.
    Mhm, i'd argue this depends - if they flee their country, and maybe only started due to recent events to inform themselves with non-russian sources and they see their former home for what it is... fine; if they flee just because they don't want to fight themselves, but continue to cheer the russian forces on? Yeah fuck them and send them back.

  13. #24993
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,963
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Mhm, i'd argue this depends - if they flee their country, and maybe only started due to recent events to inform themselves with non-russian sources and they see their former home for what it is... fine; if they flee just because they don't want to fight themselves, but continue to cheer the russian forces on? Yeah fuck them and send them back.
    The mentioned poster very much falls in the latter category.

  14. #24994
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Mhm, i'd argue this depends - if they flee their country, and maybe only started due to recent events to inform themselves with non-russian sources and they see their former home for what it is... fine; if they flee just because they don't want to fight themselves, but continue to cheer the russian forces on? Yeah fuck them and send them back.
    The particular poster in question was all about "kill all gay people with fire" while smileyfacing how Ukraine was already getting raped since 2014. Don't think any non-russian sources can fix him. So yeah, sure as hell was fucking funny to see him cry about borders closing from russians when he was all gung-ho about genociding innocents...until the cause required his service

    Unfortunately we, non-russians, cannot fix russian goverment from here, hence why people attribute that duty to the russian citizens themselves. And russians being ironically and genetically so obedient towards their oppressors is why their country has a very low chance of ever reforming.

  15. #24995
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    9,513
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    4 days on and, despite Russian propaganda, it seems there has still been no train traffic over the Kerch bridge. Which means next to no supplies for the southern front for Russia.
    They'll likely need to replace the bridge span subject to the fuel fire entirely to restore full operation safely, that's an operation that will take months.

    Capacity through that has been severely compromised for a significant amount of time, which obviously isn't good for Russia.
    Last edited by zealo; 2022-10-12 at 08:49 AM.

  16. #24996
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,963

  17. #24997
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    But but I thought it was a suicide bomber?? How did they detain a dead guy, who multiplied into 8 people?

    Some propaganda just doesn't hold up

  18. #24998
    That was fast even by trumped up FSB charges standards. The hilarious part is they are said to have smuggled the bomb out of Ukraine, through Bulgaria, Armenia and Georgia and then into Russia and then through the X-ray machine at the bridge which seems far too convoluted when they could just have bribed any russian army base for the explosives and saved a lot of time.

    I wonder if this lot have upgraded to SIMS 4.

  19. #24999
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    But but I thought it was a suicide bomber?? How did they detain a dead guy, who multiplied into 8 people?

    Some propaganda just doesn't hold up
    I'm starting to lean towards it having a been a false flag event to give Putin the cover he needs to send in all the conscripts and Zapp Brannigan the war,sending hundreds of thousands of minority conscripts in to be butchered would be very on brand for Russia.

  20. #25000
    russia is now breaking out 1980s soviet era radios and 1950s field telephones.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1...J0E6HE2Dqgv3iw

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •