Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Mazza]

The only reason this war started is because Russia can not accept that Ukraine is not some sort of Russian colony anymore.

Ukraine wanted out of Russia's sphere of influence and I don't think anybody sane can blame them for that. That is not on the US, it's not on the EU, Soros, NATO or goddamn Santa. IT'S BECAUSE BEING IN THE SPHERE OF INFLUENCE OF RUSSIA IS SHIT.

[Iphie]

The only way for russia to have a chance is if it loses this war, as many russian aggressors as possible are killed, and it reflects on its wrongdoings. But that won't happen, this country is lost and should be expelled from the global community forever.

Ok chill out Cato...

Forever is a long time. We don't have to play nice but let's not say things that are a bit... improbable.

[Saradain]

Ok chill out Cato...

Forever is a long time. We don't have to play nice but let's not say things that are a bit... improbable.

Not forever. Just 10000 years sounds like a good start, given universe will exist long after humanity is gone...

...Or we can start with 100% of the costs required to rebuild Ukraine, plus any legal fees for kidnapped/murdered ukrainians and other damages to still living ones.

Then, we can consider easing up sanctions. You think Russia would agree to pay shit even if they are utterly defeated?

[Iphie]

Not forever. Just 10000 years sounds like a good start, given universe will exist long after humanity is gone...

...Or we can start with 100% of the costs required to rebuild Ukraine, plus any legal fees for kidnapped/murdered ukrainians and other damages to still living ones.

Then, we can consider easing up sanctions. You think Russia would agree to pay shit even if they are utterly defeated?

I don't think they have much choice if they capitulated unconditionally. But otherwise? Nope, they'll be in a position to refuse as long as they aren't occupied, which won't happen. (Occupation that is.)

But come on, Saradain, you did see what I replied too, yeah? I don't see the sanctions lifted anytime soon either btw, barring those deemed "humanitarian", anything which smells of weapons production wil be a no no for a long time.

[Specialka]

I don't think they have much choice if they capitulated unconditionally. But otherwise? Nope, they'll be in a position to refuse as long as they aren't occupied, which won't happen. (Occupation that is.)

But come on, Saradain, you did see what I replied too, yeah? I don't see the sanctions lifted anytime soon either btw, barring those deemed "humanitarian", anything which smells of weapons production wil be a no no for a long time.

Did you not get that this thread is the thread of all the Hyperbole you can do ?

[Saradain]

I don't think they have much choice if they capitulated unconditionally. But otherwise? Nope, they'll be in a position to refuse as long as they aren't occupied, which won't happen. (Occupation that is.)

But come on, Saradain, you did see what I replied too, yeah? I don't see the sanctions lifted anytime soon either btw, barring those deemed "humanitarian", anything which smells of weapons production wil be a no no for a long time.

I did see where your reply came from, yes. But Durion is not completely wrong.

Russia will not pay anything, at all, ever. Unless we take payment with force, which we don't, cus NOOOKS and actually requiring to invade Russia to make them pay massive reparations.

So what will we do, if they don't care one bit for the genocide they are causing to happen and acting like a civilized society? We ignore them, treat them like not a sovereign nation, when it comes to trade and rights, for travel and all. They all become persona non gratas.

If we play by the illusion that it's "just" the goverment of Russia that is to blame, we'll never get anything done. We need to cause their citizenry to overthrow their goverment, by violence.

Only Russia made the choice to invade. The collective boogieman West did not cause this. Only the russian endless thirst for conquest did.

The point here is not to just slap Russia to the wrist for their crimes, with just sanctioning them. The point is to make them forced to pay reparations, fully restoring Ukraine and massive fees for every single murdered or harmed ukrainians. If one thinks that's too much, they're on the Kremlin kool-aid.

- - - Updated - - -

On top of that, we have started to see a lot of russian activity via drone flights around european energy infrastructure or other important areas. In Norway, in Finland to begin with...

...There is no denying that russians are up to no good. Russia will not quit their ways unless we force them to.

[The Stormbringer]

@Saradain The US has a very poor track record of successes when it comes to getting countries to overthrow their current government and start a new one. I'm pretty sure just about every single time it has ended very poorly, usually worse than before, or created even bigger problems down the line. So, y'know, "We need to cause their citizenry to overthrow their government, by violence" is pretty fucking wrong.

[Saradain]

@Saradain The US has a very poor track record of successes when it comes to getting countries to overthrow their current government and start a new one. I'm pretty sure just about every single time it has ended very poorly, usually worse than before, or created even bigger problems down the line. So, y'know, "We need to cause their citizenry to overthrow their government, by violence" is pretty fucking wrong.

How else do you suggest we get rid of Russia's fanatical need for murdering civilians then? It doesn't seem to abate with its current leadership, or any other leadership the past...many many years.

I guess "not doing anything" works too, if we just decide to not treat Russia as a nation, ie we don't play with the russian kid in the sandbox. He'll fuck off eventually (while starving due ever-increasing sanctions), try something mean (and get slapped in the process).'

Hell, I should slap myself for even daring to type that they'd just stop eventually. Russia will not.

[The Stormbringer]

How else do you suggest we get rid of Russia's fanatical need for murdering civilians then? It doesn't seem to abate with its current leadership, or any other leadership the past...many many years.

I guess "not doing anything" works too, if we just decide to not treat Russia as a nation, ie we don't play with the russian kid in the sandbox. He'll fuck off eventually (while starving due ever-increasing sanctions), try something mean (and get slapped in the process).'

Hell, I should slap myself for even daring to type that they'd just stop eventually. Russia will not.

The best way to stop people from being horrible dickheads? You re-educate them, you socialize them, you help them.

Instead of trying to get them to revolt, you teach them. You take power out of the hands of those unwilling to change or learn, and instead give it to those who are. Actually show them what the people in the West are like rather than just feeding them state propaganda 24/7/365. Help the Russian people by giving them aid, but keep the pressure and sanctions on the corporations and oligarchs until they finally bend.

Don't treat them like fucking monsters who can only be redeemed in the blood of our enemies. Treat them like people.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/s...30049480085505



SATAN, BEGONE!

Apparently there are no more Nazi's in Ukraine, and now Russia needs to take on the scourge of satanists. I need to know more about this "kind of closed joint-stock company with a couple hundred small-town adepts"! I NEED TO KNOW MORE

[Saradain]

The best way to stop people from being horrible dickheads? You re-educate them, you socialize them, you help them.

Instead of trying to get them to revolt, you teach them. You take power out of the hands of those unwilling to change or learn, and instead give it to those who are. Actually show them what the people in the West are like rather than just feeding them state propaganda 24/7/365. Help the Russian people by giving them aid, but keep the pressure and sanctions on the corporations and oligarchs until they finally bend.

Don't treat them like fucking monsters who can only be redeemed in the blood of our enemies. Treat them like people.

Noble goals. Russian state propaganda though, is very active and successful in feeding people the bullshit they need to hear. Plus russians seem to prefer supporting a genocidal war, so they are not quite as innocent as you would hope.

I treat most russians as fucking monsters, because they have proven to be just that. How do you teach someone who sees their people as the master race who deserves to conquer the "lesser" states?

As long as Russia remains a terrorist state with terrorist leadership, they cannot be re-educated.

[Iphie]

Don't treat them like fucking monsters who can only be redeemed in the blood of our enemies. Treat them like people.

Very unpopular opinion around these parts. (Even if you're right.)

The problem is, to have any chance of educating them means there needs to be a new government inclined to allow that education. russia has always operated on a: "we're the victim, it's not our fault"-basis. In doing so the governments of russia have fostered a society which looks distrustful to outsiders and is supremely convinced of their own superiority, even more so than WWII Germany or the US. If a russian government allows this then the whole fabric of that society will unravel.

You think there's resistance to CRT in the US? I invite you to contemplate the level of resistance in russia when they have to acknowledge that for the past 150-200 years or so they have been quite a big issue in the world and that this has NOT been positive, that the reason other countries around them want to see them fail is not because the other countries are malicious but because they have been under the yoke of moscow and swore never to let that happen again. That they have to acknowledge they aren't victims, they are the abusers.

[Kaleredar]

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/s...30049480085505



SATAN, BEGONE!

Apparently there are no more Nazi's in Ukraine, and now Russia needs to take on the scourge of satanists. I need to know more about this "kind of closed joint-stock company with a couple hundred small-town adepts"! I NEED TO KNOW MORE

Everyone knows the Scholomance is located in Romania; Russia just can’t nut up enough to invade a nato country so they opt for trying to beat up Ukraine instead.

[Saradain]

Can't exactly just re-educate the people who take great joy in raping and murdering and pillaging Ukraine. Definitely any kind of forgiveness is out of the question. Russia wanted blood of Ukraine, and we'll give them the bloodbath they desire, just not of ukrainian blood.

As if the West (if West can even be considered as a single entity one of mind...) didn't do a mistake already around 2014 by not acting against Russia for the whole Crimea thing...

...Surely we can just forgive Russia this time?

[Nymrohd]

The best way to stop people from being horrible dickheads? You re-educate them, you socialize them, you help them.

Instead of trying to get them to revolt, you teach them. You take power out of the hands of those unwilling to change or learn, and instead give it to those who are. Actually show them what the people in the West are like rather than just feeding them state propaganda 24/7/365. Help the Russian people by giving them aid, but keep the pressure and sanctions on the corporations and oligarchs until they finally bend.

Don't treat them like fucking monsters who can only be redeemed in the blood of our enemies. Treat them like people.

That's definitely the normative answer but there is really no road to implement it. Imo best we can do when this was is over and if hopefully it ends with Ukraine largely restoring their territory is keep the sanctions and get a solid legal basis for reparations that can excuse asset seizure towards their repayment. Russia will find a way to keep going by trading with those countries outside Western influence and perhaps cleaner lines will be drawn. They'll stop being on the news in our countries (until they try e.g. to invade Georgia or stage a coup in Kazakhstan) so people will stop talking about them.

[AntiFascistVoter]

Apologies to Ukraine. My congress person fucked up and allowed the CPC Ukraine letter to release yesterday. After a day of rethinking it, they finally disavowed the letter.



Senior reps like Jayapal and Raskin should have know better.

The move by Rep. Pramila Jayapal, the head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, came after she released a letter – initially signed in June – from 30 liberals calling for more diplomacy, a move that appeared to undercut their party’s resolute support for Ukraine. Releasing the letter this week was not endorsed by most of the members, and some said they would not sign it now given how the war has turned in recent days.

After Democratic fury began to emerge publicly, Jayapal contended the letter was released by staff without proper vetting and said it improperly conflated her caucus’ position with GOP divisions over providing more aid to Ukraine aid, which Democrats back. She withdrew the letter after the embarrassing intra-party feud.

Big lesson on entryism here. Dont let tankies from the DSA or Justice Dems take charge of messaging.

Ukraine deserves better in their fight for survival.

[Saradain]

Well, looks like Moscow is not safe from mobilization

https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-63346138

Use auto-translate if you will, it's in russian.

Young Muscovite Anton was twice detained at the entrance to the metro to be sent to the military recruitment office. Both times he was snatched from the stream by a camera connected to the facial recognition system. In the end, he did not go to war and, now hiding from mobilization, threw away the SIM card. The BBC tells what tools of "digital surveillance" the authorities use to search for those mobilized - and whether this is legal.

So yeah, the former immunity to slavery and meat grinder sacrifice is gone. Russia so stronk and holding back that they finally unleash their wunderwaffe - the capital city hipsters...

[Gorsameth]

How else do you suggest we get rid of Russia's fanatical need for murdering civilians then? It doesn't seem to abate with its current leadership, or any other leadership the past...many many years.

I guess "not doing anything" works too, if we just decide to not treat Russia as a nation, ie we don't play with the russian kid in the sandbox. He'll fuck off eventually (while starving due ever-increasing sanctions), try something mean (and get slapped in the process).'

Hell, I should slap myself for even daring to type that they'd just stop eventually. Russia will not.

How do we stop Russia from doing it again in the future?
We don't.
That's what happens with nuclear powers, there is no avenue for forcing regime change and the usual method of economic integration and gradual assimilation to Western values has been tried and failed.
So we will do nothing, because we can do nothing.

Aside from politically and economically isolating Russia and hoping they will be so poor they simply can't wage a war again in the future.

[Saradain]

How do we stop Russia from doing it again in the future?
We don't.
That's what happens with nuclear powers, there is no avenue for forcing regime change and the usual method of economic integration and gradual assimilation to Western values has been tried and failed.
So we will do nothing, because we can do nothing.

Aside from politically and economically isolating Russia and hoping they will be so poor they simply can't wage a war again in the future.

And thus, we can just economically starve Russia without shedding their blood outside of Ukraine. They will comply, or become China's newest vassal state, sovereign on paper only.

I'd settle for that. Seize their foreign assets by force, use them to help Ukraine, and let them rot in the filth they created themselves. If russian people are content in eating shit, living in shit, believing shit, they can sure as hell stay that way, and enjoy the coming decades of stagnation.

[Yunru]

So there is a video of a tik tok army getting hit by HIMARS in school, because they posted what they are doing on social media

40 soldiers killed and 60 out of action. Makes you wonder now why russan officers are taking phones away from new conscripts.