Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Vladier]

But is that taught? Is it implied in the way history is taught or in the way the events are presented in most media? My understanding is, Russians are led to believe what they believe (similar to how the Japanese are taught they did nothing wrong to the Koreans or Chinese in WW2 through their culture). People from the US are not taught so, they choose to believe that.

I don't know how WWII is taught now, but when I was taught about the Great Patriotic War in school there wasn't really anything explicit about how it was USSR alone that won the war and the Western Front didn't happen. Sure, it was mostly about the Eastern Front, with the Western Front mentioned mostly in passing, but it's kind of expected, since countries teach history mostly from their point of view, and WWII is just too big. And there was a chapter devoted to Lendlease. I don't actually recall any actual mention of Pacific theatre resolution, though, but that might just be my memory. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was mentioned too, heavily flavoured with "Stalin didn't really see any other choice, had to stall for time and shameful Poland stuff was mostly about putting the border as far away from Moscow as possible".

I can see how "USSR won the WWII in its lonesome" mentality can be formed, but then it isn't really that different from...

Though not outright stated, it's heavily implied that once Pearl Harbor happened the US put on their big boy pants then...

D-day: When the US lead the crumpet fuckers, cheese fuckers, and all of you other fuckers to glorious victory in record time.
Everything else is insignificant details.
USA! USA! USA!

Exactly this...

[zealo]

I don't disagree, but this is kinda what putin is counting on: warfatigue with Ukraine's allies. So outright stating it is something that plays right into his hand.



Market Garden was a failure of the Britts though...

Yep, but it were also at the same time an operation with resistance to the idea within the American military. Patton were pushing for trying to smash through into Germany proper across the Rhine further south, but Eisenhower ended up backing Market Garden in no small part because of political reasons with Montgomery.

[PACOX]

But is that taught? Is it implied in the way history is taught or in the way the events are presented in most media? My understanding is, Russians are led to believe what they believe (similar to how the Japanese are taught they did nothing wrong to the Koreans or Chinese in WW2 through their culture). People from the US are not taught so, they choose to believe that.

Is it taught in US public schools? Absolutely. Not always on purpose due to time and scope constraints but WW2 is taught through a very pro-US filter. That means lessons focus on what the US did and do not be surprised if it goes 'everything was dire until the US went to Europe and led the continent to Germany, then it soloed Japan.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't disagree, but this is kinda what putin is counting on: warfatigue with Ukraine's allies. So outright stating it is something that plays right into his hand.

People did not like when I said that a few weeks ago. A lot of people have forgotten about the worry because they didn't care about Ukraine in the first place - if was the popular cause at the time or wanted to scratch their Cold War itch. All they care about is 'why are my energy bills still up'.


The Ukrainians have always been the least listened to and considered as far as mainstream goes. People viewed the war like it was a sport without considering the sacrifices and brutality of it.

[ghotihook]

Is it taught in US public schools? Absolutely. Not always on purpose due to time and scope constraints but WW2 is taught through a very pro-US filter. That means lessons focus on what the US did and do not be surprised if it goes 'everything was dire until the US went to Europe and led the continent to Germany, then it soloed Japan.

I completely agree with this. This pretty much sounds exactly what we were taught. I would also add that we were taught that dropping the nukes on Japan was totally necessary too.

[DarkTZeratul]

But is that taught? Is it implied in the way history is taught or in the way the events are presented in most media? My understanding is, Russians are led to believe what they believe (similar to how the Japanese are taught they did nothing wrong to the Koreans or Chinese in WW2 through their culture). People from the US are not taught so, they choose to believe that.

Lots of people have answered this already, but I just wanted to add an additional bit of clarification that "what is taught in the US" is not a singular thing. It can vary considerably not just from state to state, but from county to county (and sometimes even further down than that).

[Iphie]

Lots of people have answered this already, but I just wanted to add an additional bit of clarification that "what is taught in the US" is not a singular thing. It can vary considerably not just from state to state, but from county to county (and sometimes even further down than that).

Meh, Texas and California have rather a big influence due to being the largest markets for school books. But yeah, you are right. And then parents have entirely too much say in the curriculum at the local school.

[Nymrohd]

Meh, Texas and California have rather a big influence due to being the largest markets for school books. But yeah, you are right. And then parents have entirely too much say in the curriculum at the local school.

Everything in the way the US works seems so alien to me . . .

[DarkTZeratul]

Meh, Texas and California have rather a big influence due to being the largest markets for school books.

And just think about how different they are in terms of what kind of message their respective education departments would want to teach their kids.

[Belize]

Everything in the way the US works seems so alien to me . . .

It's arcane by design, wouldn't want to make things simple and easy to understand for the general population. They might start asking questions.

[D3thray]

It's arcane by design, wouldn't want to make things simple and easy to understand for the general population. They might start asking questions.

I dunno I find it reasonably easy to figure out if you’re paying attention

[Iphie]

And just think about how different they are in terms of what kind of message their respective education departments would want to teach their kids.

Yeah...Some YouTubers I follow are from Texas and they have complained in the past bitterly about it (not in the least because of their activism for secularity.

[Makabreska]

Everything in the way the US works seems so alien to me . . .

Everyone likes to paint themselves as being in the right. Nothing surprising here.

[Belize]

I dunno I find it reasonably easy to figure out if you’re paying attention

You're being spoonfed misinformation, of course it's easy for you to understand, it's boiled down to easy to remember soundbites.

[Forogil]

Is it taught in US public schools? Absolutely. Not always on purpose due to time and scope constraints but WW2 is taught through a very pro-US filter. That means lessons focus on what the US did and do not be surprised if it goes 'everything was dire until the US went to Europe and led the continent to Germany, then it soloed Japan.

Apart from being inaccurate that would also really underplay one of the US strengths: specifically, the (military) production capacity and using it through lend-lease. Even though there's similarly named lend-lease for Ukraine we are not seeing it fully in effect - yet.

[PACOX]

Apart from being inaccurate that would also really underplay one of the US strengths: specifically, the (military) production capacity and using it through lend-lease. Even though there's similarly named lend-lease for Ukraine we are not seeing it fully in effect - yet.

Oh no, production is emphazied in history classes because, "there's nothing as good as good ole American ingenuity and the power of capitalism!" .

[Corvus]

russian losses in Pavlivka, where the 155th Marine Brigade got destroyed, may even be higher than thought. The russian MOD actually came out and said 'nyet, losses very light. Just 1%. We spoke to the commanders, they tell us.' They were responding to social media rumours, which shows how worried they are. And given the commanders were the ones to order the attack, they may be less than forthcoming with the truth anyway.

No one is buying it, not even russian milibloggers. The 155th was just one of 3 units in the failed attack and here is plenty of video coming out showing the russians being hammered and a lot of destroyed vehicles and dead bodies.

[YUPPIE]

I don't know if you people need a recap on what led up to this, but North Korea is now one of the "nu Axis" powers for Russia along with the Iranian government. In addition to escalating their tensions against SK and the US much, much more lately, they are now covertly sending munition and proper clothing to the Russian army against the sanctions. There are reports they've even sending their own fodder.

While China is definitely Russia's staunch ally, the fact Xi Jinping of all people openly "warned" Putin lately over the prospect of nukes or nuke rhetoric - humiliating him - makes it more evident North Korea is a much more important ally given they are openly supporting their war effort.

These three put together, how powerful are they?

[Corvus]

North Korea is a joke really. You see how bad russia fared? Well nks equipment is even older and worse than russias and its army is poorly fed even compared to russias mobiks. And the US and sk are far better equipped than Ukraine.

[Specialka]

And China is not a staunch ally. If anything, they are using Russia.

[YUPPIE]

North Korea is a joke really.

they are good at producing missiles and bullets, though, which can cause a lot of harm.

See, at this point, we should consider that Putin can't take Ukraine. So he's just going to keep bombing civilians in a borderline genocide until nothing's left. Stuff like what NK sends is what facilitates the progress of this.