1. #25801
    You guys are forgetting your ABCs of interpreting vatnik propaganda.



    None of it matters. Putler can fail as often as he wants, and each tiny bit of success just resets the clock. None of them believe in shit except ROOOSSSIA STRONK!

  2. #25802
    So they announced it on state TV. Of course this is russia, so it is wise to remain sceptical until it actually happens. Would not put it past them to be lying.

    If they are trying to retreat, its gong to be hard with the Ukrainians right behind them and with no proper bridges. They could take some really heavy losses trying to get over the Dnieper, especially in vehicles.

  3. #25803
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    So they announced it on state TV. Of course this is russia, so it is wise to remain sceptical until it actually happens. Would not put it past them to be lying.

    If they are trying to retreat, its gong to be hard with the Ukrainians right behind them and with no proper bridges. They could take some really heavy losses trying to get over the Dnieper, especially in vehicles.
    Ok, while we know russia lies about everything (how do you know a russian lies etc .) Is it just me or does it seem the narrative IS changing in russia?

    I hear there are less baleful sounds coming from the state television, there's growing opposition to the war and so on.

    I do think we shouldn't lift sanctions until they're all buggered off from Ukraine, obviously.

  4. #25804
    Showing how confident they are of holding on to land they have stolen, russia is now digging trenchlines in Crimea.

    https://twitter.com/COUPSURE/status/...tqcMD-9QRxN__Q

    - - - Updated - - -

    russia is planning to bring back child labour due to economic difficulties caused by the sanctions they said weren't working.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/stat...Y1uZHkxo9DC2iw

  5. #25805
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I do think we shouldn't lift sanctions until they're all buggered off from Ukraine, obviously.
    Fuck it, extend the sanctions until after Ukraine is comfortably in a mutual defense agreement with NATO or the EU or something similar.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #25806
    As I've seen a number of people point out, the timing of the announcement is very interesting. Its been known for a while that russian commanders have wanted to pull out of Kherson but they held on until the day after the midterms to make the announcement. Almost like they didn't want to give anything that might help the democrats to defeat their stooges.

  7. #25807
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post

    I do think we shouldn't lift sanctions until they're all buggered off from Ukraine, obviously.
    Wdym? The sanctions should not be lifted again until Russia has become a stable, democratic state, that peacefully co-exists with its neighbors.

    In other words, never. I'm looking forward to Russia becoming a bigger, more difficult to govern, North Korea.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2022-11-10 at 04:03 AM.

  8. #25808
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Wdym? The sanctions should not be lifted again until Russia has become a stable, democratic state, that peacefully co-exists with its neighbors.

    In other words, never. I'm looking forward to Russia becoming a bigger, more difficult to govern, North Korea.
    Also after they have compensated Ukraine in full for the damage they have done there. So never basically.

  9. #25809
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Wdym? The sanctions should not be lifted again until Russia has become a stable, democratic state, that peacefully co-exists with its neighbors.

    In other words, never. I'm looking forward to Russia becoming a bigger, more difficult to govern, North Korea.
    I think Russia is far more susceptible to some form of internal collapse than North Korea. Up until... basically this year, Russians were free to travel and intermingle and communicate with the outside world. They can easily see how much better the outside world has it, and they don't have the complete dictator-worship, information control, or iron-tight borders that North Korea has.

    This gap between Russia and the rest of the world is only going to increase. and their lives are only going to get worse.

    People say that Russians are "too in love with Putin" or somesuch for there to be change, but... Russia's government has collapsed twice over the span of just a hair longer than a human lifetime. I see little reason to believe this Russia is suddenly "immune" to what sank two former Russian governments that were, frankly, far more powerful than the current one.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2022-11-10 at 07:36 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #25810
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Wdym? The sanctions should not be lifted again until Russia has become a stable, democratic state, that peacefully co-exists with its neighbors.

    In other words, never. I'm looking forward to Russia becoming a bigger, more difficult to govern, North Korea.
    What do you mean "what do you mean"? Isn't it obvious, until and unless russia buggers off out of all of Ukraine there can't be any talk of lifting any sanctions, and that's talk, meaning just because they buggered off doesn't mean they'll get relief immediately (unless there's something humanitarian that needs immediate addressing, meds or babyfood for example)

  11. #25811
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    What do you mean "what do you mean"? Isn't it obvious, until and unless russia buggers off out of all of Ukraine there can't be any talk of lifting any sanctions, and that's talk, meaning just because they buggered off doesn't mean they'll get relief immediately (unless there's something humanitarian that needs immediate addressing, meds or babyfood for example)
    What do you mean "what do you mean "what do you mean"?"

    They shouldn't get santion relief even after leaving Ukraine. Fuck them and keep fucking them.

    We should settle for nothing less than the collapse of Russia as it is.

  12. #25812
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    What do you mean "what do you mean "what do you mean"?"

    They shouldn't get santion relief even after leaving Ukraine. Fuck them and keep fucking them.

    We should settle for nothing less than the collapse of Russia as it is.
    Ah, my mistake I thought I was talking to a rational human being. Clearly I am not, I shan't make that mistake again.

  13. #25813
    If you think the West won't drop sanctions as soon as justifiable to help their own economies recover I have a bridge to sell you.

    They should not be lifted once Russia is out of Ukraine but they will be.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  14. #25814
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    What do you mean "what do you mean "what do you mean"?"

    They shouldn't get santion relief even after leaving Ukraine. Fuck them and keep fucking them.

    We should settle for nothing less than the collapse of Russia as it is.
    Complete collapse of Russia might be something Russia does to itself eventually, but that shouldn't be a core aim there.

    E.g Russia has deported hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into Russia from eastern and southern Ukraine, sanctions reliefs are one of the measures the west can offer Ukraine as leverage in getting Russia to return them as a pressure point when it does come to genuine negotiations, but we're not at a point where that ought to begin yet.

  15. #25815
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    If you think the West won't drop sanctions as soon as justifiable to help their own economies recover I have a bridge to sell you.

    They should not be lifted once Russia is out of Ukraine but they will be.
    The only thing anyone should negotiate with Russia about is when they will leave Ukraine, pay for rebuilding of the nation and deliver Putin to be sentenced for his crimes against humanity in Ukraine.

  16. #25816
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    The only thing anyone should negotiate with Russia about is when they will leave Ukraine, pay for rebuilding of the nation and deliver Putin to be sentenced for his crimes against humanity in Ukraine.
    Germany is already quivering to reopen trade with Russia so they can get their cheap gas.

    Sanctions will be dropped the second the big players can gain more from it than lose.

  17. #25817
    Quote Originally Posted by Lathspell View Post
    The only thing anyone should negotiate with Russia about is when they will leave Ukraine, pay for rebuilding of the nation and deliver Putin to be sentenced for his crimes against humanity in Ukraine.
    You keep talking about an ideal world, not reality.

    Don't think about what should happen but look around at the actual factual real world and tell me I'm wrong.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  18. #25818
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You keep talking about an ideal world, not reality.

    Don't think about what should happen but look around at the actual factual real world and tell me I'm wrong.
    If the West lets Russia get away with this atrocity even a little bit they will do it again and soon. If what you say does happen I will be very worried for the future.

  19. #25819
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Germany is already quivering to reopen trade with Russia so they can get their cheap gas.

    Sanctions will be dropped the second the big players can gain more from it than lose.
    I sincerely hope the US dares Germany to do that by applying sanctions that will affect them as well if they try to reopen trade.

  20. #25820
    isn't the Republican Party inclined to do away with everything Biden has sanctioned Russia with in 2024
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

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