1. #26161
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Do you have concrete evidence of that.
    you dont really believe russia's "we didnt do it it was the ukrainians!" schtick do you
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  2. #26162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I mean if the coordinates have been manually fed it's possible, but I don't think that's the case.
    i would be more surprised if the coordinates were automated. Knowing the tech Russia is using!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    you dont really believe russia's "we didnt do it it was the ukrainians!" schtick do you
    No adult does.

  3. #26163
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    you dont really believe russia's "we didnt do it it was the ukrainians!" schtick do you
    No, I do not. A stray missile given Russia's poor capability of common stuff like maintenance of their armaments is common knowledge by now. Or them running out of precise rockets a while ago. A stray, inaccurate rocket does not a declaration of war make.

    We'll have this "attack on NATO" discussion again once investigation is complete and PROVED that Russia purposefully targeted Poland, for some reason, to commit suicide as a nation, just to kill 2 farmers.

    Until then, you or me do not have evidence that it was a declaration of war from Russia (which did not declare a war vs Ukraine to this very day).

  4. #26164
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Do you have concrete evidence of that, or you assuming from just news headlines?

    I know Russia is a meme, but starting a war against NATO by killing 2 farmers instead of bombing Warsaw with all the central goverment locations sounds like pretty fucking amazing Darth Putin twitter-level meme.
    Quit the apologism.

    Were it not for Putins’s psychopathic behaviour there would be no threat of war.

    I’ll be interested to see how NATO wriggles out of implementing the red lines it insists it members sign up to.

  5. #26165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Williams View Post
    Quit the apologism.

    Were it not for Putins’s psychopathic behaviour there would be no threat of war.

    I’ll be interested to see how NATO wriggles out of implementing the red lines it insists it members sign up to.
    What apologism? You can very well check my post history...

    I haven't seen you around in this thread posting anything, so I assume you have not perhaps actively read this for the past 6+ months.

    You see, we have interesting posters in this thread. Some are probably paid russian agents, some are just vatniks or otherwise easily impressed by Kremlin "news". Some dream of a world war to die with the rest of the planet.

    I, most definitely know very well Russia and Russia alone is to blame for this war. I simply try to not go sensational "OMG WORLD WAR 3 INCOMING!!" level of posting, when Russian tin can rockets land on wrong side of a border against 2 farmers.

    I assure you I really enjoy seeing clips of russian orcs burning alive in a great ball of fire when invading & genociding a population they decided not to deserve an existence.

  6. #26166
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    you dont really believe russia's "we didnt do it it was the ukrainians!" schtick do you
    Of course not. But, once again, you are making the mistake of seeing everything as a binary: either Ukraine did it, or Russia intentionally blew up a farm. The reality is more likely that Russia shot a missile at Ukraine and missed.

  7. #26167
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Williams View Post
    I’ll be interested to see how NATO wriggles out of implementing the red lines it insists it members sign up to.
    Here's the text of Article 5:
    The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

    Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .
    There is no red line. There is no precommitment to total war at the slightest provocation. There is a commitment to treating this with the same seriousness that other members would treat two of their own civilians being killed, which should not include jumping to immediate heavy escalation.

  8. #26168
    even if this was an accident, who would believe Russia? And if it was an accident, as a minister pointed out today, FUCKING APOLOGIZE because all they've done is deflect.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  9. #26169
    The ball is in Poland's court. That country will be more directly affected. If they want more American soldiers and apparatus on their soil...

  10. #26170
    The Polish foreign ministry is saying it was a russian made missile and has summoned the russian ambassador.

  11. #26171
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The Polish foreign ministry is saying it was a russian made missile and has summoned the russian ambassador.
    apparently, the ambassador stormed out quickly saying it was Ukraine's fault.

    Shit has gotten real now, though. I can't wait for NATO's official statement on the matter.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  12. #26172
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    apparently, the ambassador stormed out quickly saying it was Ukraine's fault.

    Shit has gotten real now, though. I can't wait for NATO's official statement on the matter.
    They said russian-made, not russian-fired. Some interesting wiggle room there.

    It'll be article 4, not article 5. No nukes today sorry.

  13. #26173
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    They said russian-made, not russian-fired. Some interesting wiggle room there.

    It'll be article 4, not article 5. No nukes today sorry.
    I mean with that wiggle room you could even blame Belarus. But I think art. 4 is best in this case, since it's not a clear and unambiguous attack.

  14. #26174
    The Polish President has said that there is no conclusive evidence yet as to who is responsible, while the PM is calling for calm, and to exercise restraint and caution, though they have increased the readiness of their forces, particularly those monitoring airspace.

    So the Poles are waiting for all the facts and not jumping the gun.

    Meanwhile world leaders are gathering for an 'emergency roundtable.' If it is russia, doing it during the G20 meeting is very bad timing. Unless that was the point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yikes, if this is true then some russian operator stuffed up big time entering co-ordinates, and mixed up Kyiv and Lviv co-ordinates.



    The site hit in Poland corresponds with the latitude of Kyiv and the longitude of Lviv.

    Kyiv/Coordinates 50.4501° N, 30.5234°E

    Lviv/Coordinates 49.842957 ° N, 24.031111° E

    target 50.4501° N 24.031111° E
    Last edited by Corvus; 2022-11-16 at 01:20 AM.

  15. #26175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The Polish President has said that there is no conclusive evidence yet as to who is responsible, while the PM is calling for calm, and to exercise restraint and caution, though they have increased the readiness of their forces, particularly those monitoring airspace.

    So the Poles are waiting for all the facts and not jumping the gun.

    Meanwhile world leaders are gathering for an 'emergency roundtable.' If it is russia, doing it during the G20 meeting is very bad timing. Unless that was the point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yikes, if this is true then some russian operator stuffed up big time entering co-ordinates, and mixed up Kyiv and Lviv co-ordinates.



    The site hit in Poland corresponds with the latitude of Kyiv and the longitude of Lviv.
    That's...not that implausible...I mean the names are similar. (Though I guess not in russian)
    Last edited by Iphie; 2022-11-16 at 01:27 AM.

  16. #26176
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    That's...not that implausible...I mean the names are similar. (Though I guess not in russian)
    Assuming whoever was entering coordinates was using a standard keyboard like the rest of us and all...the K and the L are right next to each other. But I don't think you punch in the city you want to hit, or that you're doing a web search for lat/long coordinates before entering those in.

    Still, honestly the most "realistic" explanation I've seen so far.

  17. #26177
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Assuming whoever was entering coordinates was using a standard keyboard like the rest of us and all...the K and the L are right next to each other. But I don't think you punch in the city you want to hit, or that you're doing a web search for lat/long coordinates before entering those in.

    Still, honestly the most "realistic" explanation I've seen so far.
    Sure, but I don't think the Cyrillic keyboards work the same way. Either way, this is a collosal mix up and, as you say, somehow realistic.

  18. #26178
    NATO to hold an important meeting tomorrow. Tomorrow is going to be the day.

    What I think is going to happen first and foremost: NATO probably won’t bomb Moscow into paste, nor will they kowtow to Russia by refusing to take action. On the other hand, I think they will set up air defense so no missiles from Russia fly over Ukraine again.

    Now when that happens, and Russia inevitably says “WAR!” I hope in that moment NATO responds accordingly.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  19. #26179
    Biden is saying that it looks like the missile wasn't fired from within Russia, but they do know its trajectory. Still leaves a lot of places it has could have come from, such as Belarus, or Ukraine.

  20. #26180
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Biden is saying that it looks like the missile wasn't fired from within Russia, but they do know its trajectory. Still leaves a lot of places it has could have come from, such as Belarus, or Ukraine.
    If it is an S300 as some have tried to say, then there are very few places from Belarus it could have come from due to the range of the missile itself. Of course, that's an IF.

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