1. #26221
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    You sure like to double down on 2 accidental victims that undeniably were caused by Russia invading in the first place, but choosing to ignore the several thousands of ukrainian ones specifically targeted by Russia.
    also, given there's yet to be a formal response from NATO, US, etc given it's early in the day, I'm assuming this concern is going to dominate the rest of the day. Zelenksy has to apologize, at least.

  2. #26222
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    also, given there's yet to be a formal response from NATO, US, etc given it's early in the day, I'm assuming this concern is going to dominate the rest of the day. Zelenksy has to apologize, at least.
    And Zelensky, or other ukrainian officials surely will.

    They just will not pretend to be war criminals because of this, like you present them as. Consensus already is that the impact site has hints of russian & ukrainian (but russian-made) rockets colliding, so as you can clearly see, if Russia didn't invade, Ukraine wouldn't have to had used shit quality stuff to defend itself.

    There will not be article 5 invoked here, and never was. Only you wanted us to think it was a close call here. For whatever motive.

  3. #26223
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    also, given there's yet to be a formal response from NATO, US, etc given it's early in the day, I'm assuming this concern is going to dominate the rest of the day. Zelenksy has to apologize, at least.
    What does Putin have to do?
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  4. #26224
    also, as the other poster pointed out: apart from the initial denial, Ukraine looks really really bad now in terms of vulturism-looking opportunistic. Because when the missiles hit, one of their first responses was they should receive better anti-air capabilities/support so this doesn't happen again

  5. #26225
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    also, as the other poster pointed out: apart from the initial denial, Ukraine looks really really bad now in terms of vulturism-looking opportunistic. Because when the missiles hit, one of their first responses was they should receive better anti-air capabilities/support so this doesn't happen again
    You posted the solution yourself. If Ukraine had better quality weapons aid, they could have used the modern anti-air defense system to ensure the russian rocket salvos would be destroyed, and thus not stray so, so far from the target area.

    Ukraine isn't looking any worse. Still. For 100th time.

  6. #26226
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    they killed two innocents, man. This isn't just collateral damage akin to traffic dispute where everyone was fine afterward. That's why I'm doubling down on this.
    Two innocents died in Poland because Russia was trying to kill thousands of innocents in Ukraine.

    It is unfortunate that Poland got hit, but this is in no shape anyone else's but Russia's fault.

  7. #26227
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Ukraine looks really really bad now
    No, it doesn't. Stop being a clown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #26228
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    and said he would actively support deploying air defences on the Polish border with Ukraine, as well as the rest of Nato's eastern flank.
    so they're not really holding them accountable for much, and putting all blame on Russia

  9. #26229
    Brewmaster Slirith's Avatar
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    Really wish people would just ignore Yuppie and not reply to it's nonsense.

  10. #26230
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so they're not really holding them accountable for much, and putting all blame on Russia
    Yep. #10char

  11. #26231
    I'm sure Poland will accept Ukraine killing some more Russians as an apology.

  12. #26232
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    also, as the other poster pointed out: apart from the initial denial, Ukraine looks really really bad now in terms of vulturism-looking opportunistic. Because when the missiles hit, one of their first responses was they should receive better anti-air capabilities/support so this doesn't happen again
    Ukraine was bombarded for a whole day yesterday, probably at least 200 missile strikes in total, counting the ones that were shot down. Their infrastructure even in the largest cities is barely holding together, or down entirely. If among the attempts to shoot down terrorists missiles one of the rockets landed in Poland, it's a tragedy, yes, but at the same time an accident caused by the aggressor. And by all means Zełensky might not have have known what happened, you know, being kind of busy with his whole country being showered by rockets.

    Of course it's yet to see how they handle it, but calling it vulturism at this point does make you look like a russian shill of a major caliber. And as kremlin will try to spin it more and more against Ukraine (to attempt to cause rift between Poland and Ukraine), if you keep supporting those attempts, you're going to look like a complete piece of shit.

  13. #26233
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    It's like the other person said, he started this debacle off by trying to blame Russia for lying, which almost led to NATO vs Russia for real. He better grovel and apologize soon.

    If you think groveling is too strong here, TWO INNOCENT PEOPLE DIED FOR NO REASON.
    like you actually care........

  14. #26234
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so they're not really holding them accountable for much, and putting all blame on Russia
    You do realize it's that if innocent bystanders die in a confrontation between the police and criminals, the blame is on the criminals, right?

    It's even the law in America. If you rob a bank and the police catch you inside the bank and a shootout begins, if the police accidentally hit a bystander, it's YOU who gets blamed, and murder is added it to your charges even if you didn't actually kill anybody.
    Last edited by Cynical Asshole; 2022-11-16 at 02:20 PM.

  15. #26235
    Quote Originally Posted by Slirith View Post
    Really wish people would just ignore Yuppie and not reply to it's nonsense.
    Personally I'd love to ignore Mr. "Are people afraid of my avatar yet?", but then whole this thread disappears from the list. Lately, however, extra bother with bookmarks does seem more appealing than losing brain cells every time I scroll through his pukeposts.

  16. #26236
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Poland may forgo article 4, this time

    De-escalation, instrument remains available.

  17. #26237
    there's no way I can be described as a Russian apologist considering how much I want NATO to take action and have advocated for Putin's death. Like yesterday I was so fucking up in arms over the possibility Russia made the move, but woke up to find out it's a nuanced situation surprisingly considering Russia's lack of restraint/ethics.

    I just want Ukraine to never compromise their victim/good guy image after most of the the world has given them so much. Any time they're vague or not truthful - like with the aforementioned car bombing - is when they compromise said image.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-11-16 at 02:29 PM.

  18. #26238
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    there's no way I can be described as a Russian apologist considering how much I want NATO to take action and have advocated for Putin's death. Like yesterday I was so fucking up in arms over the possibility, but woke up to find out it's a nuanced situation surprisingly considering Russia's lack of restraint/ethics.

    I just want Ukraine to never compromise their victim/good guy image after most of the the world has given them so much. Any time they're vague or not truthful - like with the aforementioned car bombing - is when they compromise said image.
    How stupid you think we are? You literally elevate Putin to godhood.

    If you want to be taken seriously, you need to change. Do not over-dramatize events, expecting a nuclear war over an accident. There's a reason NATO negotiates, investigates calmly. It very much is to display the integrity of the defensive pact. You don't start a war in real life the same way you gank a WoW player in world pvp the moment you see them.

    That is why you sound like a russian apologist, an accident somehow, to you, is Ukraine trying to escalate the war when it has no reasons to risk themselves and the international support they get. Ukraine does not need Russia to be wiped out outside of Ukraine. Ukraine certainly would not follow withdrawing russian troops over the border.

    Calm the fuck down, let the actual experts (not MMO-C posters) investigate a sudden change in events, let them report the results. Or at very least make sure its labeled as a speculation by yourself if you wish to discuss an event before final results arrive.

  19. #26239
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    like you actually care........
    Love how he went straight to hurting Ukraine instead of the more logical goal of putting air defenses on their border to defend against this or, by following his own logic, that if Russia was involved that it would require a nato counter offensive. But nope, straight to hurting Ukraine in a way that helps Russia.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  20. #26240
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Poland may forgo article 4, this time

    De-escalation, instrument remains available.
    so it's over (for now), just like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    expecting a nuclear war over an accident.

    It's been a long ass time since I mentioned or even considered nukes. Do you think NATO squaring off against Russia is going to escalate to that so easily? I don't think so after Jinping's remark.

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