Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Orange Joe]

This one is lol, you should've seen some videos he's made before he became a president:

https://www.tiktok.com/@infatuation....0856222338310?

There are more of course. Zelensky is literally a clown.

yeah no..... either you don't know what a clown is or you are being dense on purpose.

[Strawberry]

They don't? Last I checked grown men can do whatever the fuck they want without caring what some people with very delicate, sensitive images of what "masculinity" is think about it.



Imagine thinking any of this is news to those of us who have been following along and are very aware of his career as a pretty darned funny comedian.

I wish I could ignore your ass because you spew some feminist trash at me. But you're a mod and I can't. Must feel good to abuse those powers Mr Putin?

[Corvus]

The Wagner SS may be absolute scum but even they have bauked conventional russian talking points and said Zelensky is a formidable opponent and should not be underestimated.

[Belize]

This is a grown up man, not a fucking baby. Grown men don't degrade themselves to dancing in heels and tight leather.
But yeah, say whatever makes you sleep better at night. Sorry not sorry I ruined your hero's image.

I'm sure alpha men like you who *checks notes* whinge on gaming forums really have a grip of what grown men need to do.

Imagine being that scared of a little drag. Cringe.

[zealo]

If Zelensky is a clown then you are a full on three ring circus pal. Absolutely none of this would be happening if Russia had just stayed in it's shithole lane.

Zelensky was a comedian before, but he certainly hasn't been shirking from stepping up as a wartime leader on the whole.

The real clown car is Putin & co here.

[Orange Joe]

I wish I could ignore your ass because you spew some feminist trash at me. But you're a mod and I can't. Must feel good to abuse those powers Mr Putin?

Nothing is stopping you from "growing the fuck up" and just not responding to him if he bothers you.

[PACOX]

Ukraine doesn't need to and shouldn't negotiate with them and just push them out of the nation entirely while the rest of the world forces Russia to start repaying what they did even if it involves giving Ukraine seized Russian assets to do it. The only thing Ukraine could really do at this point that would hurt them would be to invade Russia itself which would still be entirely justified at this point but would have bad optics to the world as a whole.

I get the idea but Russia can't really be pushed out without negotiations. It's like killing ants in your home without taking out the nest, they'll just keep coming back. You end up with a situation like Korea but the chances of the war going hot being real or sectarian fights with militias armed to teeth. Ukraine really wouldn't safe.

Those negotiations don't have to be in Russia's favor though.

[Deus Mortis]

This is a grown up man, not a fucking baby. Grown men don't degrade themselves to dancing in heels and tight leather.
But yeah, say whatever makes you sleep better at night. Sorry not sorry I ruined your hero's image.

What does it say about your idol Putin that he is losing to a man like Zelensky? Literally losing to a comedian.

[Kallisto]

I get the idea but Russia can't really be pushed out without negotiations. It's like killing ants in your home without taking out the nest, they'll just keep coming back. You end up with a situation like Korea but the chances of the war going hot being real or sectarian fights with militias armed to teeth. Ukraine really wouldn't safe.

Those negotiations don't have to be in Russia's favor though.

Honestly, I find the "If we ceasefire now, they'll only come back in x months/years" a bit tiresome. Yes, it's highly likely they will think about it. But it also supposes that the west and Ukraine will be all "Show's over folks, everyone back to 100% pre-war normality.". When it is highly likely that for years Ukraine will be funded with enough money and equipment that it will become a fortress, with the Marshall plan looking pale in comparison. A military that is now full of veterans, armed with the best weapons money could buy, enough defences that pretty much any rocket into their airspace will be shot down. All because it will be in the West's interest to keep Moscow at super arm's length.

A Russia second attempt would likely look like Moscow sending a letter saying "If we return yadda bad thing happens." and Kyiv replying with "If." much like Sparta replied to Macedon back in the mid 300s BCE because they know Russia would have nothing to in reality hurt them with.

[PACOX]

Honestly, I find the "If we ceasefire now, they'll only come back in x months/years" a bit tiresome. Yes, it's highly likely they will think about it. But it also supposes that the west and Ukraine will be all "Show's over folks, everyone back to 100% pre-war normality.". When it is highly likely that for years Ukraine will be funded with enough money and equipment that it will become a fortress, with the Marshall plan looking pale in comparison. A military that is now full of veterans, armed with the best weapons money could buy, enough defences that pretty much any rocket into their airspace will be shot down. All because it will be in the West's interest to keep Moscow at super arm's length.

A Russia second attempt would likely look like Moscow sending a letter saying "If we return yadda bad thing happens." and Kyiv replying with "If." much like Sparta replied to Macedon back in the mid 300s BCE because they know Russia would have nothing to in reality hurt them with.

If NATO/US gets tired of funding the fight then Ukraine will have to go to the negotiation tables. Unfortunately for Ukraine their survival depends on how much others are willing to back them and they can only blow off pressure to negotiate for so long. I don't think they will be pressured soon but needle is moving in that direction. US support isn't going to dry up but it's not going to come as quickly, either?

Better to do it before good will support dries up instead of having to dealing with a Russia that knows Ukraine's aid has been cut.

[Kallisto]

If NATO/US gets tired of funding the fight then Ukraine will have to go to the negotiation tables. Unfortunately for Ukraine their survival depends on how much others are willing to back them and they can only blow off pressure to negotiate for so long. I don't think they will be pressured soon but needle is moving in that direction. US support isn't going to dry up but it's not going to come as quickly, either?

Better to do it before good will support dries up instead of having to dealing with a Russia that knows Ukraine's aid has been cut.

In the US and Poland at least as well as the Baltic states, that's never going to end. For the US their military industry will be making profit after profit from this war. Plus the US is nearly always going to see Russia as a near-peer while it has (Checks Yuppie status right now) nukes and hundreds of millions of people within its borders. Poland and the Baltics have every reason in the world to see Russia bleed out too. Aid isn't going to dry up while the fighting goes on, and I'm sure many in Washington would love to have a gloves-off supply chain if a ceasefire is in place.

[Kaleredar]

This is a grown up man, not a fucking baby. Grown men don't degrade themselves to dancing in heels and tight leather.
But yeah, say whatever makes you sleep better at night. Sorry not sorry I ruined your hero's image.

Just remember, every disparaging word you throw at zelensky gets added in front of “is currently beating putin and Russia.”

So now we’re up to “clown that dances in tights and high-heels is currently beating Putin and Russia.”


Keep going by all means; this is fun.

[Fugus]

I get the idea but Russia can't really be pushed out without negotiations. It's like killing ants in your home without taking out the nest, they'll just keep coming back. You end up with a situation like Korea but the chances of the war going hot being real or sectarian fights with militias armed to teeth. Ukraine really wouldn't safe.

Those negotiations don't have to be in Russia's favor though.

That's the thing though, this is an ant infestation with the bug repellent sitting on the sidelines.

They can push Russia out at the rate they are going. Russia will go bankrupt before Ukraine goes under. And the moment they are, NATO membership and protection is waiting in short order at which point Russia will be too spent to do anything about it then and wouldn't be stupid enough to try later.

Those militias would be expelled with Russia you would think.

The only negotiations Ukraine should do is the negotiating where Russia leaves and Ukraine gets NATO assurances as Russian assurances mean nothing as this invasion has proven.

No ceasefire, that just gives Russia the ability to regroup and has shown they will not honor any agreement or human rights.

Push Russia out, keep Russia out, keep Russia sanctioned till they are too broke to even think about doing anything else, admit Ukraine into NATO, Russia doesn't dare try anything then outside of their voter manipulations and hacking that most nations for some reason don't consider acts of war even when they are.

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If NATO/US gets tired of funding the fight then Ukraine will have to go to the negotiation tables. Unfortunately for Ukraine their survival depends on how much others are willing to back them and they can only blow off pressure to negotiate for so long. I don't think they will be pressured soon but needle is moving in that direction. US support isn't going to dry up but it's not going to come as quickly, either?

Better to do it before good will support dries up instead of having to dealing with a Russia that knows Ukraine's aid has been cut.

And as a foreign nation, this funding is peanuts to have what was seen as a near peer taken down, broken, and pre-occupied trying to save face all while losing a conflict of their own making. Multiple nations will fund this till the end just to diminish Russia.

[PACOX]

In the US and Poland at least as well as the Baltic states, that's never going to end. For the US their military industry will be making profit after profit from this war. Plus the US is nearly always going to see Russia as a near-peer while it has (Checks Yuppie status right now) nukes and hundreds of millions of people within its borders. Poland and the Baltics have every reason in the world to see Russia bleed out too. Aid isn't going to dry up while the fighting goes on, and I'm sure many in Washington would love to have a gloves-off supply chain if a ceasefire is in place.

I can see it this way too. That's why don't think you will see aid stop in the near future regardless of speculation you see on TV about Congress changing. The military industry complex is bipartisan and there's a lot of money in it.

I think you have to consider the economy and political pressure aimed at vulnerable politicians. All it takes is for the right people to sell the narrative that all of someone's economic woes at the pump and grocery stores are because of the war. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. That kind of pressure could make a impact.


Same goes a few bad cold days in Europe and a bad press story. People don't think further than what's immediately in front of them when they are uncomfortable.

- - - Updated - - -

And as a foreign nation, this funding is peanuts to have what was seen as a near peer taken down, broken, and pre-occupied trying to save face all while losing a conflict of their own making. Multiple nations will fund this till the end just to diminish Russia.

I'm not sure in a world where far-right ideology has crept up in western nations. Traditional conservatives love sticking it to the commies. Russia is a husk of the USSR but it doesn't matter to them. They will oppose support just to spite anyone left of them.

Republican support continues to trend downward



But like Kallisto reminded me, the military industrial complex is strong.

Those militias would be expelled with Russia you would think.

They are pro-Russian Ukrainians that existed before the war. They were doing dumb stuff before a single Russian tank crossed the border. They are likely to remain after any withdrawals but with new toys.

[noremorze]

This is a grown up man, not a fucking baby. Grown men don't degrade themselves to dancing in heels and tight leather.
But yeah, say whatever makes you sleep better at night. Sorry not sorry I ruined your hero's image.

Someone sounds a little insecure. Must suck for you that a former entertainer dancing in heels and tight leather is able to make Putin like a complete loser.

[Fugus]

@PACOX

A fringe of the right supports Russia, the right is also riding the titanic whether they like to admit it or not over the next 15 years or so as their supporters die out while the up and coming voters defying them.

Fascism hasn’t been creeping up, it’s been there they just got more comfortable showing it thanks to people like Trump showing it and large amounts of manipulation largely by Russia as well.

Russia will dry up long before the funding for Ukraine does in this, with how things are now, Ukraine might be able to hold their own even without aid from this point on.

Russia is running out of people, running out of Weapons, running out of money, and has no sympathy from the majority of the globe with the support it does get from people who can’t openly support them without hurting themselves and have no direct routes to materially support them.

Russia is fucked on this long term any way they cut it and the longer they push the deeper the hole they dig themselves into.

The only terms Ukraine should agree to is a full withdrawal from their borders including Crimea and in return they will allow Russian soldiers to leave.

[Corvus]

Putin had to institute price controls on cars because the market had crashed so badly. Their military-industrial complex is reportedly 400,000 workers short. The mobilisation has failed except to kill thousands of russian mobiks - they couldn't even train or equip them. Putin's plan is to try and outlast the West, but given the broken state of his military and economy it can't.

And in news of a shock to no one, a Dutch court has found that MH17 was destroyed by a russian missile given to russian controlled separatists by russians. 3 men have been found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment, but russia isn't handing them over.

[Fugus]

Putin had to institute price controls on cars because the market had crashed so badly. Their military-industrial complex is reportedly 400,000 workers short. The mobilisation has failed except to kill thousands of russian mobiks - they couldn't even train or equip them. Putin's plan is to try and outlast the West, but given the broken state of his military and economy it can't.

And in news of a shock to no one, a Dutch court has found that MH17 was destroyed by a russian missile given to russian controlled separatists by russians. 3 men have been found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment, but russia isn't handing them over.

Honest question, how the hell would Russia ever expect to outlast an entire globe in a local conflict that they are already losing when we aren't sending but a fraction of our weapons and absolutely no troops?

I mean, its a fraction of Russia's size and on their own door step and they can't even project power that far adequately.

[Corvus]

Because they genuinely believe the west is soft and decadent and scared of their nukes, and that russians can survive a lot of hardship and are macho manly men.

[jonnysensible]

Because they genuinely believe the west is soft and decadent and scared of their nukes, and that russians can survive a lot of hardship and are macho manly men.

yea its always going to be rough when you start believing your own propaganda like russia did