Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Makabreska]

Man, Yuppie agitated af today. His fetish is being fed strongly.

[Corvus]

If it wasn't fired from Russia as Biden suggests then does that also mean it wasn't fired by Russia? Is he implying it could have come from Belarus or even Ukraine in an air defence failure?

Fired from does not rule out fired by. It could have been a sea launch, or from Belarus. And, while unlikely, the possibility of a Ukrainian misfire can't be ruled out. If it had been, I'm sure they would have admitted to it by now. All he was saying it was that it wasn't fired from Russia territory.

[Makabreska]

Well shit. Associated Press says that preliminary findings suggest rocket was fired by Ukrainians as a part of anti-air defence.

[Iphie]

Well shit. Associated Press says that preliminary findings suggest rocket was fired by Ukrainians as a part of anti-air defence.

Ugh...I mean I can see it happening and then the Ukrainians blaming the russians but man would that be bad PR.

[Kallisto]

Ugh...I mean I can see it happening and then the Ukrainians blaming the russians but man would that be bad PR.

If this is true. Then Ukrainian leaders should at the beginning gone with the cooperation route. Then also point out how this would not happen if Russia was not throwing missiles all over Ukraine.

[Skulltaker]

Ugh...I mean I can see it happening and then the Ukrainians blaming the russians but man would that be bad PR.

It wouldn't be good PR, but I don't think it would be bad. Or that bad.

Ukraine obviously didn't intent to fire the missile at Poland, unless you want to dive into conspiracy theory with them faking a russian attack on a NATO member. This was, probably, either the result of equipment failing which, given its origin, isn't that unlikely, or it was human error. In which case, I get it. Whomever is in charge of handling Air defense systems at this point has probably been on the job for months, with little reprieve, and I don't think Ukraine has the manpower to make sure their servicemen get frequent RnR right now. They're probably exhaustet. Someone fucked up. It happens. It's tremendously sad that it cost human lives, but sadly, in war, this happens. We just tend not to care because it's not at our doorstep.

All of this is assuming the preliminary findings are correct, of course.

If this is true. Then Ukrainian leaders should at the beginning gone with the cooperation route. Then also point out how this would not happen if Russia was not throwing missiles all over Ukraine.

War is messy. It is very well possible that Ukraine themselves had no idea it was them and wanted to wait for confirmation.

[Gabriel]

That's...not that implausible...I mean the names are similar. (Though I guess not in russian)

Assuming whoever was entering coordinates was using a standard keyboard like the rest of us and all...the K and the L are right next to each other. But I don't think you punch in the city you want to hit, or that you're doing a web search for lat/long coordinates before entering those in.

Still, honestly the most "realistic" explanation I've seen so far.

I doubt the conscript inputting the coordinates into the missiles was too worried about double checking he read the correct lines.

[jonnysensible]

so probs ukrainian air defense (russian made lol). No article 5, no smashing orcs

lol @ Oryx list : Russia - 7967, of which: destroyed: 4892, damaged: 191, abandoned: 299, captured: 2585

Tanks (1491, of which destroyed: 856, damaged: 62, abandoned: 55, captured: 518)

The tank losses alone are crazy. If Ukraine gained any ally in this war Russian forces are already so degraded and liquidated I just can't see them putting up much of a fight.

[Iphie]

so probs ukrainian air defense (russian made lol). No article 5, no smashing orcs

lol @ Oryx list : Russia - 7967, of which: destroyed: 4892, damaged: 191, abandoned: 299, captured: 2585

Tanks (1491, of which destroyed: 856, damaged: 62, abandoned: 55, captured: 518)

The tank losses alone are crazy. If Ukraine gained any ally in this war Russian forces are already so degraded and liquidated I just can't see them putting up much of a fight.

Article 5 was always going to be a stretch for two missiles which could have been a mistake. But we'll see how NATO proceeds outside of that article.

[Flurryfang]

The most likely nature is the air defense of Ukraine missed and was just sent as far as it could go, which was in poland.

But even if it was a Ukrainian missle, it does not take blame away from Russia nor make the risk for Poland any less. If the bombardment of Ukraine is at the point, where its neighbor countries are in danger because of how Ukraine defends itself, Russia will still take most of the blame and poland still have to make decisions around that. Do they have to set up their own protection barrier around the border? Will this maybe be a common situation with the winter pushing for a more bombardment focused assault?

[Fugus]

Possibilities.

1. Ukraine aimed at a object and missed.
2. Russia used munitions for something other than its intended purpose again and messed up again.

Both of them would be accidental because, let’s face it, neither of them would be willing to do that intentionally.

It would kill Ukraines support and international reputation while the last thing Russia wants to a valid excuse to put anti-air defenses on their border or provoking NATO with a direct assault which this would do.

[Saradain]

Seems like situation has not cleared for several hours yet. Likelihood for strayed rockets remains plausible.

Which brings us to points such as:

- Ukraine, using russian-made counter-rocketry to deflect russian rockets, had a misfire/malfunction.

= Ukraine clearly needs that more advanced weapon supply aid, so we will not have this kind of shit happening again. Russia, being the genocidal aggressor that forces Ukraine to defend with everything they got obviously gets the blame as they should, no matter what kind of a field day certain people have when they think Ukraine is to blame for everything.

- Once again, cool heads and unbiased investigation pays off. No intentional attack against NATO happened (if for sake of this post, we assume the truth was what I described above), no Article 5. The western nations are not pulling shit out of their asses to justify a war, unlike our Nazi Russia fans pretend.

Hopefully the collective West begins to see Russia for what it is, so this illegal genocidal war can be goaded towards an end where Ukraine remains victorious, sovereign and drives off every russian orcish invader from their soil and restores Ukraine's rightful territory ownership (ergo Russia fucks off from Crimea as well, given Russia agreed long ago to not invade Ukraine ever, a pact they broke), which in turn means Ukraine can be molded into a proper EU candidate (and/or NATO, later on). Which means that the most peaceful period of human history we have going on (as funny as that sounds) can be extended and ensure terrorist states and dictatorships around the world have less power in general.

[YUPPIE]

if this was ukraine that caused it, they need to end all international support for deception and deception of this scale

[Sorshen]

if this was ukraine that caused it, they need to end all international support for deception and deception of this scale

Get a fucking grip.

[Gabriel]

if this was ukraine that caused it, they need to end all international support for deception and deception of this scale

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Saradain]

if this was ukraine that caused it, they need to end all international support for deception and deception of this scale

Gotcha, you are most definitely a pro-Russian poster without a doubt now.

Russia itself was disarming Ukraine since USSR collapsed, with a promise to never attack Ukraine. Ergo, Ukraine's capability to defend itself was hurt big time, and we all know what happened later on.

Now you go all out and pretend Ukraine somehow intentionally tried to fake a rocket attack on NATO to cause shit on Russia. With no evidence which is your specialty.

When some Western nations are too chickenshit to give proper modern armaments so Ukraine could end this war, instead they have to use what they got to ensure best defensive coverage - incidents like this could happen. And NOTHING is confirmed yet, as in what actually happened. But you choose to go wild 180 degree turn to scream at Ukraine

Surely Russia has no part in this ukrainian need to use defensive systems, Ukraine just decided to fuck over all international support for lols.

[YUPPIE]

"IF"

Besides that clarification, it doesn't help Ukraine started by allegedly claiming this whole affair being their own was a Russian conspiracy theory. Everyone trusted Ukraine too for obvious reasons.

I just hope Zelenksy knows his international trust is kind of on a thin wire. Not many Americans have taken kindly to his repeated begging for aid for a while now with our own issues. He should never take this shit for granted.

[Gabriel]

"IF"

Besides that clarification, it doesn't help Ukraine started by allegedly claiming this whole affair being their own was a Russian conspiracy theory. Everyone trusted Ukraine too for obvious reasons.

I just hope Zelenksy knows his international trust is kind of on a thin wire. Not many Americans have taken kindly to his repeated begging for aid for a while now with our own issues. He should never take this shit for granted.

Bro, lay down whatever you are smoking right now, and go to bed. You're making even less sense than usual.

[ABEEnr2]

"IF"

Besides that clarification, it doesn't help Ukraine started by allegedly claiming this whole affair being their own was a Russian conspiracy theory. Everyone trusted Ukraine too for obvious reasons.

I just hope Zelenksy knows his international trust is kind of on a thin wire. Not many Americans have taken kindly to his repeated begging for aid for a while now with our own issues. He should never take this shit for granted.

Funny how not so long ago u said u were not a pro Russians

[Saradain]

Reuters

Biden says missile that killed two in Poland may not have come from Russia

WARSAW, Nov 16 (Reuters) - A missile that killed two people in Poland was probably not fired from Russia, U.S. President Joe Biden said on Wednesday after holding talks with leaders of Western allies amid concerns the Ukraine conflict could spill into neighbouring countries.
The explosion on Tuesday at a grain facility near the Ukrainian border came as Russia unleashed a wave of missiles targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure, attacks that Kyiv said were the heaviest in nearly nine months of war.

According to U.S. officials, initial findings suggested that the missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile, the Associated Press reported, having earlier cited a senior U.S. intelligence official as saying the blast was due to Russian missiles.

Initial findings seem to be the above consensus, however word from Poland in the same article says the following:

Polish President Andrzej Duda had also told reporters earlier that it was "most likely a Russian-made missile", but there was no concrete evidence of who fired it, and the incident was a one-off.