Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Collegeguy]

Pretty sure they asked for the Arms Dealer not because he is the one they wanted the most but because he is the one that would create the worst possible press for the Biden administration.

I wonder if this is spun as some type of win in the Russian news as well. When your own government wants to trade athletes for arms dealers and convicted assassins, is there a point where regular Russians comically ask themselves "are we the baddies"?

Do Russian citizens need to start wearing skulls on their hats before they realize their culture sucks?

[Iphie]

I wonder if this is spun as some type of win in the Russian news as well. When your own government wants to trade athletes for arms dealers and convicted assassins, is there a point where regular Russians comically ask themselves "are we the baddies"?

Do Russian citizens need to start wearing skulls on their hats before they realize their culture sucks?

Apparently he's being hailed as a hero. Brought home from unjust incarceration in the US.

[Elder Millennial]

with that in mind, I think it's time to stop beating around the bush and just admit India is both an ally and business partner of Russia; India is always cited with China on the top of Russia's non-militaristic (at least as we openly know) alliances on news outlets.

I mean, I cited it right there

"biggest buyers of Russian oil"

Playing neutral =/= ally.

Ally would mean someone who shares strategic interests. India does not share strategic interests with Russia. India profits economically from the war at the detriment of Russia while at the same time having a complicated defense related dependence on Russia. India is worried about China, but it also spent decades buying Russian military hardware.

There are dimensions to this. Tone it down. As far as India is concerned, Putin might jump out of a window and Moscow might burn to the ground and Ukraine might annex St Petersburg as long as they can buy cheap oil and gas and hopefully the entire Russian military arsenal on the cheap.

[YUPPIE]

just wondering: are you people mistaking "ally" with "militaristic aid"? Because I already ruled that out. You don't have to sell guns, missiles, etc to Russia to be an ally = only bring in money that enables their war machine.

That's why much of the world condemns India for their stance on buying oil

[Gorsameth]

just wondering: are you people mistaking "ally" with "militaristic aid"? Because I already ruled that out. You don't have to sell guns, missiles, etc to Russia to be an ally = only bring in money that enables their war machine.

That's why much of the world condemns India for their stance on buying oil

I imagine most of the world would not use the word ally for someone who buys your stuff for cheap because of your own 'misfortune'.

(and I use misfortune very loosely here considering this entirely Russia's own fault)

[Gabriel]

just wondering: are you people mistaking "ally" with "militaristic aid"? Because I already ruled that out. You don't have to sell guns, missiles, etc to Russia to be an ally = only bring in money that enables their war machine.

That's why much of the world condemns India for their stance on buying oil

If I pay a prostitute for sex, it doesn't make me their friend.

[YUPPIE]

buys your stuff

But that's still financially backing Russia even in a meager capacity; it's been stated already India can just turn to America or Europe for their needs but they've rebuked those offers

[Kallisto]

just wondering: are you people mistaking "ally" with "militaristic aid"? Because I already ruled that out. You don't have to sell guns, missiles, etc to Russia to be an ally = only bring in money that enables their war machine.

That's why much of the world condemns India for their stance on buying oil

Most of the world might vote in the UN to condem Russia, but outside of that material support and actually push against Russia is NATO and a handful of western aligned countries only. For most of the world, it's basically "Oh it's europe now, anyway back to our own problems." They are likely using the war to get their own gains from both sides.

[Gorsameth]

But that's still financially backing Russia even in a meager capacity; it's been stated already India can just turn to America or Europe for their needs but they've rebuked those offers

America and Europe are not selling oil at bottom prices.

India only cares about the fact that the oil is cheap, not that it supports Russia.

[Elder Millennial]

just wondering: are you people mistaking "ally" with "militaristic aid"?

That's not what I said did I?

I said, and I quote, "Ally would mean someone who shares strategic interests". Russia's strategic interests are territorial capture in Ukraine and the destabilization or annihilation of Ukraine's political and cultural independence and its return to Russian sphere of influence. Destabilizing Western cultural, economic and military hegemony would be a bonus.

These are not strategic objectives for India.

And argument can be made that China shares some of Russia's greater geopolitical objectives, namely the desire to end western hegemony, but it doesn't share Russia's primary strategic objectives in Ukraine, on the contrary, the economic instability caused by this war disrupts its financial interests and the security instability across the Caucasus and in eastern Europe threatens to completely kneecap the Belt and Road project which is and was China's flagship economic, political and security project meant to challenge that Western hegemony.

China doesn't care about which sphere of influence Ukraine falls into and it probably didn't object to initially to Russia trying to grab Ukraine, but what China likely agreed to turn a blind eye to (tho it never supported) was the original Russian "grab Ukraine in 3 days" plan. China was additionally interested in observing what the Western reactions were going to be to a quick landgrab. In a way it was a "test run" for Taiwan but without having to bear any of the consequences.

In my estimation China didn't foresee either how bad this is going to get economically or how much it would revitalize Western determination.

China could easily bail Russia out in a million different ways even without giving them a single bullet, but it didn't and doesn't. It hasn't lifted a finger to help them. With allies like that, who needs enemies?

Anyway, this thread is a quagmire.

[Kaleredar]

Anyway, this thread is a quagmire.

That's what happens when certain someones get back from their little forum vacations. They ask the same question five different times and get the same answer telling them why they're wrong from 30 different people then, like a toddler, move on to the next nonsequitur question they have based on the same misinformation they've already been corrected on.

[YUPPIE]

India only cares about the fact that the oil is cheap, not that it supports Russia.

that's immoral as fuck. A lot of analogies can be made with that context. But it doesn't really change the fact India is opportunistic regardless of consequences or sentiments.

[Kallisto]

that's immoral as fuck. A lot of analogies can be made with that context. But it doesn't really change the fact India is opportunistic regardless of consequences or sentiments.

How many times do we have to repeat? MORALITY HAS NO PLACE IN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMACY. ONLY NATIONAL INTERESTS.

Nato selling what they're doing in Ukraine is helped by it being moral. Morality aside they would still be doing the exact same thing, just trying harder to sell it to their citizens.

[Corvus]

Seems to have been a couple of major hits on russian barracks during the night, in Melitopol and Crimea. Casualties have been reported at both though no numbers yet. The one in Crimea reportedly housed thousands of mobiks and had been locked to prevent desertions.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NOELrepor...58989582102528

https://mobile.twitter.com/clashrepo...73814307020802

[YUPPIE]

Seems to have been a couple of major hits on russian barracks during the night, in Melitopol and Crimea. Casualties have been reported at both though no numbers yet. The one in Crimea reportedly housed thousands of mobiks and had been locked to prevent desertions.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NOELrepor...58989582102528

https://mobile.twitter.com/clashrepo...73814307020802

Yeah that's horrible. Being locked in, unable to escape that.

[enigma77]

while I don't want to cite the Daily Beast among other things, numerous credible sources similarly say some of the numerous rapists/killers Putin conscripted from prisons have murdered their commanding officers in "brutal fashion" before going MIA.

I am shocked at this turn of events.

Shocked but happy.

[YUPPIE]

I am shocked at this turn of events.

Shocked but happy.

there's nothing to celebrate about potentially dangerous criminals going AWOL, though.

[Kaleredar]

there's nothing to celebrate about potentially dangerous criminals going AWOL, though.

Maybe Putin shouldn't have pulled them out of prison. Maybe he shouldn't have started this war in the first place.

[Iphie]

Maybe Putin shouldn't have pulled them out of prison. Maybe he shouldn't have started this war in the first place.

For once YUPPIE has a point: We don't want them AWOL and MIA in Ukraine, if they're in russia who cares, but I do care if they are in Ukraine.

[Corvus]

The Melitopol strike seems to have hit a Wanker SS base. There is aftermath video out there which I won't share because of bodies but the place got hit hard. Lots of big fires, debris, bodies.