Russian invasion of Ukraine

[YUPPIE]

Why would Israel fear russia?

small nation in the middle east, and from what I've read, they're very hands-off on Ukraine issues.

[Gabriel]

small nation in the middle east, and from what I've read, they're very hands-off on Ukraine issues.

So? russia can't even deal with Ukraine.

[Santti]

small nation in the middle east, and from what I've read, they're very hands-off on Ukraine issues.

Russia ain't threatening anybody, for decades, at least. Rebuilding what they have lost, and is still losing, will take time.

And Israel is a close ally of US, who keeps investing billions of dollars into it. If you think US would sit and do nothing, then you are so very, very wrong. Not that it would ever come to that, because Russia is not that oblivious.

[Lynarii]

small nation in the middle east, and from what I've read, they're very hands-off on Ukraine issues.

You... don't know anything about Israel at all, do you...

Israel may be physically small, but it has a very powerful military with nuclear weaponry. They're hands off on Ukraine because Russia vs Ukraine doesn't really have anything to do with them. They do, however, care very much about Iran and anything that supports the Iranian military. The worst that Russia will do if Israel intercepts an Iranian weapon smuggler bound for Russia is issue a strongly worded letter complaining about it.

[YUPPIE]

Russia ain't threatening anybody, for decades, at least. Rebuilding what they have lost, and is still losing, will take time.

And Israel is a close ally of US, who keeps investing billions of dollars into it. If you think US would sit and do nothing, then you are so very, very wrong. Not that it would ever come to that, because Russia is not that oblivious.

Here's the thing you have to understand about Iran and Russia: Russia is in a desperate state now, needs all the weapons they can get, and Iran is their official chief benefactor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63921007
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveb...-ukraine-putin

Russia has claimed an attack on Iran would be seen as an attack on itself

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They do, however, care very much about Iran and anything that supports the Iranian military.

So that essentially means Russia is their enemy with strengthening Iran ties.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-accu...-jets-to-iran/

[Gabriel]

Here's the thing you have to understand about Iran and Russia: Russia is in a desperate state now, needs all the weapons they can get, and Iran is their official chief benefactor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63921007
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveb...-ukraine-putin

Russia has claimed an attack on Iran would be seen as an attack on itself

What is Putin going to do if Israel attacks Iran? Have an aneurysm and shit his pants again?

[Lynarii]

Here's the thing you have to understand about Iran and Russia: Russia is in a desperate state now, needs all the weapons they can get, and Iran is their official chief benefactor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63921007
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveb...-ukraine-putin

Russia has claimed an attack on Iran would be seen as an attack on itself

Which is little more than a strongly worded letter of complaint.

The amount of weapons that Russia would need to do anything about Israel absolutely towers over what Iran is giving them. It'd be like spending a million dollars in order to recoup a hundred. Sure, you might do that on principle when you've got extra money lying around and you want to make a point. But if you're already searching the couches for spare change, it's out of the question.

[Santti]

Here's the thing you have to understand about Iran and Russia: Russia is in a desperate state now, needs all the weapons they can get, and Iran is their official chief benefactor

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63921007
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveb...-ukraine-putin

Russia has claimed an attack on Iran would be seen as an attack on itself

Oh, here it comes. The YUPPIE special. The word we have all been waiting for. Come on, don't be shy.

"Say the line, Bart!"

[Forogil]

Russia ain't threatening anybody, for decades, at least. Rebuilding what they have lost, and is still losing, will take time.

And Israel is a close ally of US, who keeps investing billions of dollars into it. If you think US would sit and do nothing, then you are so very, very wrong. Not that it would ever come to that, because Russia is not that oblivious.

However, Israel has historically tried to be more friendly to Russia than many other countries - and they didn't vote in favor of the UN bill require Russia to pay reparations to Ukraine; and Israel has not yet delivered military equipment to Ukraine and even blocked the delivery of Iron dome.

One part of the explanation is there are still some Jews in Russia, and there are lot of former Russians in Israel.

But if Russia becomes too friendly with Iran that could change.

[YUPPIE]

Russia drones smash power network in Odesa

KYIV, Dec 10 (Reuters) - All non-critical infrastructure in the Ukrainian port of Odesa was without power after Russia used Iranian-made drones to hit two energy facilities, leaving 1.5 million people without power, officials said on Saturday.

"The situation in the Odesa region is very difficult," President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in his nightly video address.

"Unfortunately, the hits were critical, so it takes more than just time to restore electricity... It doesn't take hours, but a few days, unfortunately."

Kyiv says Russia has launched hundreds of Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones at targets in Ukraine, describing the attacks as war crimes due to their devastating effect on civilian life. Moscow says its attacks are militarily legitimate and that it does not target civilians.

Ukraine's prosecutor general's office said two power facilities in Odesa region were hit by Shahed-136 drones.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...rce=reddit.com

[Forogil]

Hmm... I guess Ukraine might get the better HIMARS soon, at least that's how I interpret

An unnamed US defense source told The Times that the Pentagon is no longer insisting that Ukraine should not strike military targets within Russia.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-december-10
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...ssia-732jsshpx

[YUPPIE]

Hmm... I guess Ukraine might get the better HIMARS soon, at least that's how I interpret
https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-december-10
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...ssia-732jsshpx

I think that's really audacious and worrying of Ukraine to now feel more comfortable attacking Russia itself. Before they were discreet about it, now it's not even a secret.

[Iphie]

Hmm... I guess Ukraine might get the better HIMARS soon, at least that's how I interpret
https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nt-december-10
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/u...ssia-732jsshpx

Eh, recently the news has been that the HIMARS systems supplied by the US cannot actually fire ATACMS due to a modification by the US. But since Ukraine now has homegrown extended range missiles that can reach into the RF the point is somewhat moot.

[Forogil]

Eh, recently the news has been that the HIMARS systems supplied by the US cannot actually fire ATACMS due to a modification by the US.

Yes, and it seems that now the US might allow their next level to be unlocked, due to the Russian targeting of civilian infrastructure.

But since Ukraine now has homegrown extended range missiles that can reach into the RF the point is somewhat moot.

But Ukraine likely has rather limited supply of those missiles.

[Kallisto]

Yes, and it seems that now the US might allow their next level to be unlocked, due to the Russian targeting of civilian infrastructure.


But Ukraine likely has rather limited supply of those missiles.

I think it's more "We're not going to give you the means to do it, we're just not telling you not to do it." since the article came out people within Washington basically said they don't give the means nor encourage such attacks.

[Forogil]

I think it's more "We're not going to give you the means to do it, we're just not telling you not to do it." since the article came out people within Washington basically said they don't give the means nor encourage such attacks.

Hm... I couldn't find any such recent statements, but it might be that I didn't look deep enough.

[YUPPIE]

Anyone honestly know what Ukraine is going to owe the world if and after they win this war? Someone on the last page said India isn't at fault for being self-serving in its interest, as the world as a whole is like that. This especially includes the EU and US.

Every month since the war started, on the news you hear nations all over like that giving billions and millions upon billions and millions to Ukraine in weapons, supplies, and humanitarian aid.

I don't have any doubt after this war Ukraine is going to be left impoverished and left rebuilding for possibly the next 100+ years. They can't just pay all that back in any foreseeable, profitable future.

[Corvus]

Impoverished and free is preferable to enslaved and dead.

It will be like post ww2 europe - a new Marshall Plan will pay for rebuilding Ukraine. Ukraine will be in the EU. Ukraine will be fine. Muscovy will be in a terrible place though.

[YUPPIE]

Moscow will be in a terrible place though.

I think the Russians will never surrender knowing the fate that awaits them if this ever cools over; they're all about projecting strength or not existing otherwise, after all.

[Elder Millennial]

Anyone honestly know what Ukraine is going to owe the world if and after they win this war? Someone on the last page said India isn't at fault for being self-serving in its interest, as the world as a whole is like that. This especially includes the EU and US.

Every month since the war started, on the news you hear nations all over like that giving billions and millions upon billions and millions to Ukraine in weapons, supplies, and humanitarian aid.

I don't have any doubt after this war Ukraine is going to be left impoverished and left rebuilding for possibly the next 100+ years. They can't just pay all that back in any foreseeable, profitable future.

Almost everything they have gotten, if not everything is aid. As in, nobody expects them to pay it back. It's a cost worth paying for the free world for finally neutering Russia and showing other belligerent wannabes that warmongering doesn't work.

Wars end, places rebuild. The world rebuilt after WW2, tho the destruction was much worse. Korea rebuilt, Vietnam rebuilt, the former Yugoslav states rebuilt and there the destruction was similar or worse to what we are seeing in Ukraine.

Ukraine will rebuild. And there's a lot of money to be made in that reconstruction for western countries and companies, there's massive workforce in Ukraine that is now accumulating incredibly valuable smechanical, engineering, robotics, aerospace, IT and medical skills. Ukraine will experience some very difficult years, it will come out on the other end as manufacturing/technical powerhouse as even before the war it has very very solid technical, educational, industrial and agricultural foundations.

That's what they are fighting for, to escape that entropic field that surrounds Russia which rots everything.

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I think the Russians will never surrender knowing the fate that awaits them if this ever cools over; they're all about projecting strength or not existing otherwise, after all.

There is no scenario in which Russia was ever going to "surrender". Pull out of Ukraine, that's doable. People who lose wars can in fact benefit from those losses. Germany, Japan for example. It's a chance for course correction. I'd even argue the US is better off for losing the wars both in Vietnam and Afghanistan.