Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Joszef Kiprich]

Good news everyone, Wagner HQ in Ukraine in rumbles:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...rs-2022-12-11/

[YUPPIE]

While it's not new (and some mildly NSFW stuff in link), I'm going to reiterate on the last page and the topic of Russian convicts being sent to the war; apparently, convicts that refuse to go to battle are beaten and humiliated; Russia cites this as "harmonious" and educational

A human rights activist on Sunday accused Russian operatives and Federal Penitentiary Services special forces of beating prisoners who refused to join the war in Ukraine.

Vladimir Osechkin, the founder of the human rights group Gulagu.net, said the beatings, which were called "education work," happened in the Penal Colony No. 4 in the Kaluga region.

"The DOS FSIN fighters and operatives decided to carry out 'educational work' with prisoners who refused to go to participate in the war against Ukraine due to their convictions and also did not approve of sending other convicts to the war," Osechkin wrote in a Telegram post accompanying photos and videos of prisoners being beaten.

News of Russia attempting to recruit prisoners to bolster its forces in Ukraine first came to light after a video emerged in September showing Yevgeny Prigozhin, the de facto leader of the infamous Wagner mercenary group, recruiting prisoners to fight against Ukraine in the war in exchange for a pardon.

https://www.ibtimes.com/russian-oper...report-3645992

[Corvus]

Good news everyone, Wagner HQ in Ukraine in rumbles:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...rs-2022-12-11/

It got done over good. They've tried a number of excuses, as usual, that there were only 2 dead, that it was civilians at a private party etc. Problem is that video came out from the scene from the russians showing multiple bodies in military uniforms. Muscovy lies and this time we even have the proof of it.

Putin signed off on the latest budget. More than 30% of it is now being chewed up by the war, and it is being overoptimistic in terms of revenue and expenditures. So expect the percentage to climb higher and other areas, such as healthcare, pensions etc, to get cut even more.

[Slant]

So by saying that it wasn't a matter of the laws, but instead about Russia harassing Americans I confirmed your point that "you do not fuck with other countries' law", "It's not a surprise what Russians consider crimes.", "One more lady that will promote the attitude that no country's laws matter except the US...".

Sure.

It's not black and white, buddy. Both arguments can be valid and true at the same time. Don't overcomplicate shit.

[Gorsameth]

small nation in the middle east, and from what I've read, they're very hands-off on Ukraine issues.

You really are utterly clueless.

The Israeli army is one of the best in the world. Even before this utterly fiasco of a Russian invasion I would bet on the Israeli army over the Russian one any day of the week.

Neither Russia, nor Iran is going to do anything other then grin and bear it if Israel decides to attack Iranian arms shipments.

[Cynical Asshole]

I would bet on the Israeli army over the Russian one any day of the week.

Ooof...nah. Russia has the numbers.

Russia is like the Zerg, just throwing bodies at the problem, bodies that turn into corpses until the enemy is just overwhelmed and buried under the corpses of the dead Zerg.

Individual training and equipment becomes less and less relevant the more combatants are involved in a battle. And when a side can outnumber the other 5 to 1, that training and equipment doesn't matter at all.

[Gabriel]

Ooof...nah. Russia has the numbers.

Russia is like the Zerg, just throwing bodies at the problem, bodies that turn into corpses until the enemy is just overwhelmed and buried under the corpses of the dead Zerg.

Individual training and equipment becomes less and less relevant the more combatants are involved in a battle. And when a side can outnumber the other 5 to 1, that training and equipment doesn't matter at all.

That must be why russia overran Ukraine in 3 da... ohh wait.

[Lahis]

Ooof...nah. Russia has the numbers.

Russia is like the Zerg, just throwing bodies at the problem, bodies that turn into corpses until the enemy is just overwhelmed and buried under the corpses of the dead Zerg.

Individual training and equipment becomes less and less relevant the more combatants are involved in a battle. And when a side can outnumber the other 5 to 1, that training and equipment doesn't matter at all.

So how's that all working out for them in Ukraine?

[Skulltaker]

Ooof...nah. Russia has the numbers.

Russia is like the Zerg, just throwing bodies at the problem, bodies that turn into corpses until the enemy is just overwhelmed and buried under the corpses of the dead Zerg.

Individual training and equipment becomes less and less relevant the more combatants are involved in a battle. And when a side can outnumber the other 5 to 1, that training and equipment doesn't matter at all.

Yeah, but the Zerg are fictional. Start to apply reason or physics to them, and they're not even a threat to todays military. And opposed to Zerg, actual soldiers need feeding, and usually don't take well to having to step over theid dead comrades to get to the enemy.

Numbers mean shit. They're a small fraction of what actual military power is. If Russia can't take Ukraine, a country at their doorstep, they can't do shit to anything that doesn't share a boarder with them.

[diller]

Unsurprisingly... (snip)

Is there anything you don't have a bad take on?

[XDurionX]

Is there anything you don't have a bad take on?

After surveiling empirical data in this thread and others, i think the conclusive answers has to be: Noooooo.

[diller]

I get why the US negotiated for the return of its citizen but at the same time its kinda shitty that the lesson being given is that you can break whatever law you want in a foreign country and the US gov will bail you out. Dont break the law in another country

Just as when Trump DEMANDED that Sweden should release rapper A$AP when he was withheld there?

[Cynical Asshole]

Yeah, but the Zerg are fictional. Start to apply reason or physics to them, and they're not even a threat to todays military. And opposed to Zerg, actual soldiers need feeding, and usually don't take well to having to step over theid dead comrades to get to the enemy.

Numbers mean shit. They're a small fraction of what actual military power is. If Russia can't take Ukraine, a country at their doorstep, they can't do shit to anything that doesn't share a boarder with them.

Ok, not Zerg. How about...RUSSIA?! Russia is literally throwing conscripts at Ukraine, that quickly kick the can and go back home in a bodybag. But you know what? Russia got plenty of bodybags and no one to question what goes into them.

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So how's that all working out for them in Ukraine?

It's working fine actually. Russia got plenty of bodies to throw at Ukraine. In a war of attrition Ukraine will lose eventually, of course at very high cost for Russia too, but then who cares?! Putin doesn't care, and Russians don't care enough about it to do something. Putin just has to bide his time and resist in power for the next couple of years and he will annex Ukraine eventually despite all the international assistance Ukraine gets from the West because the West doesn't supply actual soldiers.

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That must be why russia overran Ukraine in 3 da... ohh wait.

No, it's why Ukraine is unable to kick out an expeditionary force a lot smaller than the country's army, because that expeditionary force keeps getting supplied with more from a reserve that is orders of magnitude bigger than whatever the defending army can muster.

Ukraine can only win in one of two ways:
1. A massive push that breaks the frontline and forces Russians to retreat en-masse.
2. A coup against Putin by his own allies.

This war of attrition will eventually be lost by Ukraine simply because it can't throw as many soldiers into battle as Russia can. Ukraine needs to end this fast or lose by attrition in the end. And Putin is only concerned with the patience of his own allies, he knows he will win if given enough time to do it.

[Gabriel]

Ok, not Zerg. How about...RUSSIA?! Russia is literally throwing conscripts at Ukraine, that quickly kick the can and go back home in a bodybag. But you know what? Russia got plenty of bodybags and no one to question what goes into them.

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It's working fine actually. Russia got plenty of bodies to throw at Ukraine. In a war of attrition Ukraine will lose eventually, of course at very high cost for Russia too, but then who cares?! Putin doesn't care, and Russians don't care enough about it to do something. Putin just has to bide his time and resist in power for the next couple of years and he will annex Ukraine eventually despite all the international assistance Ukraine gets from the West because the West doesn't supply actual soldiers.

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No, it's why Ukraine is unable to kick out an expeditionary force a lot smaller than the country's army, because that expeditionary force keeps getting supplied with more from a reserve that is orders of magnitude bigger than whatever the defending army can muster.

You are delusional.

russia is already beyond fucked on their male demographics and economy. Their own projections for next year is that they need to throw third of their budget at the war, and that money is coming out from pension funds. russia will literally never ever recover from this war even if they managed to hold onto Crimea, and Putin's only options out from this are either dying in office of whatever disease he is hiding, or getting window'd.

[Cynical Asshole]

You are delusional.

russia is already beyond fucked on their male demographics and economy. Their own projections for next year is that they need to throw third of their budget at the war, and that money is coming out from pension funds. russia will literally never ever recover from this war even if they managed to hold onto Crimea, and Putin's only options out from this are either dying in office of whatever disease he is hiding, or getting window'd.

You are the one delusional if you think Russia will suffer enough to be deterred in Ukraine. Russia is a massive giant with powerful friends like China and a score of many others. Russia will adapt, at great cost but it will adapt.

[Saradain]

How about Ukraine getting decades newer and more powerful equipment all the way?

Sure thing Ivan, Russia is "just gonna annex whole Ukraine" and nothing will be done about it...

1 more shill to the grinder that is this thread, it was far too peaceful without the usual suspects.

[Gorsameth]

Ok, not Zerg. How about...RUSSIA?! Russia is literally throwing conscripts at Ukraine, that quickly kick the can and go back home in a bodybag. But you know what? Russia got plenty of bodybags and no one to question what goes into them.

- - - Updated - - -



It's working fine actually. Russia got plenty of bodies to throw at Ukraine. In a war of attrition Ukraine will lose eventually, of course at very high cost for Russia too, but then who cares?! Putin doesn't care, and Russians don't care enough about it to do something. Putin just has to bide his time and resist in power for the next couple of years and he will annex Ukraine eventually despite all the international assistance Ukraine gets from the West because the West doesn't supply actual soldiers.

- - - Updated - - -



No, it's why Ukraine is unable to kick out an expeditionary force a lot smaller than the country's army, because that expeditionary force keeps getting supplied with more from a reserve that is orders of magnitude bigger than whatever the defending army can muster.

Ukraine can only win in one of two ways:
1. A massive push that breaks the frontline and forces Russians to retreat en-masse.
2. A coup against Putin by his own allies.

This war of attrition will eventually be lost by Ukraine simply because it can't throw as many soldiers into battle as Russia can. Ukraine needs to end this fast or lose by attrition in the end. And Putin is only concerned with the patience of his own allies, he knows he will win if given enough time to do it.

Pretty sure Russia will run out of bodies before the rest of the world runs out of bullets to send Ukraine so they can shoot more Russians.

[Cynical Asshole]

Pretty sure Russia will run out of bodies before the rest of the world runs out of bullets to send Ukraine so they can shoot more Russians.

Yes because Ukrainian soldiers are immortal and all they need is bullets.

Just because Ukraine prefers not to publish their own casualties doesn't mean they don't have any or that their own casualties are significantly lower than the Russian ones.

[Gabriel]

You are the one delusional if you think Russia will suffer enough to be deterred in Ukraine. Russia is a massive giant with powerful friends like China and a score of many others. Russia will adapt, at great cost but it will adapt.

Lol. Strap in lad, we're going on a crazy ride in 2023.

[jonnysensible]

Yes because Ukrainian soldiers are immortal and all they need is bullets.

Just because Ukraine prefers not to publish their own casualties doesn't mean they don't have any or that their own casualties are significantly lower than the Russian ones.

ukraine fully mobilised, russia didnt. Ukraine has more men. The mobiks have plugged the gaps by being thrown into the frontlines (which is why no more hard breakthroughs and routs). There is probably near parity on death counts (but russia has lost far more material), ukraine win a war of attrition tho, it has been their strategy, attrition favors the defender. You can see them winning the attrition via the last huge breakthrough. Russia expended so much men and material taking Kharkiv Oblast areas like Izyum, the Ukrainians made them pay for every inch while easily withdrawing, then came back hard when russia was exausted and routed them, taking all the land they had died so hard taking back.

Russia is getting vaguely better at probing ukrainian positions (sending squad sized groups forward to locate them then bang them with artillery) but this hasn't added up to anything so far as Ukrainian artillery is still acting with a free hand because russia can't locate it. (lack of drones).

Long term still favours ukraine.