1. #26801
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    So they really just want him back so they can blame someone for all the good guns having gone missing lmao.
    It's nothing more than a bully stealing the neighbor kid's bike even though they know their mom is going to make them just give it back. It's an impotent flex of Russia trying to make it seem like it can compel the US to do... anything, really.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #26802
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Griner: Russia frees US basketball star in swap with arms dealer Bout

    US and Russia have exchanged jailed US basketball star Brittney Griner for notorious arms dealer Viktor Bout, held in an American prison for 12 years.

    The swap was approved by President Joe Biden in recent days, sources told CBS.
    So, two things... why was she in Moscow? And... more importantly, is nobody at all surprised that Russians didn't ask for the return of a diplomat, spy or some other legitimate Government official, instead it's for a criminal ARMS DEALER?

    Like wtf, tell me Russia (the nation) is a mafia syndicate without telling me it's a mafia syndicate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    You mean racists, boomers and Republicans are slamming this deal.

    What exactly did Griner do? Something mildly stupid like travelling with a couple of weed vape cartridges. Yeah, sure some countries are backwards hellholes where they'll execute you for this, but having a young woman rot away in a Russian labor camp for a couple of vape cartridges was not anyone decent was content with.

    Look, whether trading an arms dealer for any reason was a good idea or not is an entirely different conversation.
    Er, while I generally agree with the lack of severity, you do not fuck with other countries' laws. Americans have got to fucking learn to respect the fact that the world doesn't end at US borders. Seriously. It's not a surprise what Russians consider crimes. In fact, when you land in Malaysia, they warn you pretty directly that bringing weed means the death penalty in that country. Wonder what she would have done there.

    For all the hate I could muster up against Russia, if this was law in Russia and she violated it, I'd say she shoulda served out the sentence instead of hoping for American exceptionalism, which she apparently got. One more lady that will promote the attitude that no country's laws matter except the US...
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  3. #26803
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Er, while I generally agree with the lack of severity, you do not fuck with other countries' laws. Americans have got to fucking learn to respect the fact that the world doesn't end at US borders. Seriously. It's not a surprise what Russians consider crimes. In fact, when you land in Malaysia, they warn you pretty directly that bringing weed means the death penalty in that country. Wonder what she would have done there.
    But this was Russia not Malaysia (or Singapore to take a really non-corrupt country with harsh laws against ganja) - and mere possession of the amount she had (less than a gram) would normally just be a slap on the wrist, or more likely a good way for the police extract a bribe
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Russia
    https://cannadelics.com/2020/03/08/h...ion-in-russia/
    But irregular application of the law is part of the system in corrupt countries.

  4. #26804
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Er, while I generally agree with the lack of severity, you do not fuck with other countries' laws. Americans have got to fucking learn to respect the fact that the world doesn't end at US borders. Seriously. It's not a surprise what Russians consider crimes. In fact, when you land in Malaysia, they warn you pretty directly that bringing weed means the death penalty in that country. Wonder what she would have done there.

    For all the hate I could muster up against Russia, if this was law in Russia and she violated it, I'd say she shoulda served out the sentence instead of hoping for American exceptionalism, which she apparently got. One more lady that will promote the attitude that no country's laws matter except the US...
    Ehh, she was a fucking retard for breaking the law in russia of all places, but I wouldn't wish time in russian prison for even the worst russiaboos on this forum.

    And like I said earlier, the arms dealer should have been pushed out of a window instead if he was such bad of a person, rather than be kept locked up indefinitely.

  5. #26805
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    So, two things... why was she in Moscow? And... more importantly, is nobody at all surprised that Russians didn't ask for the return of a diplomat, spy or some other legitimate Government official, instead it's for a criminal ARMS DEALER?

    Like wtf, tell me Russia (the nation) is a mafia syndicate without telling me it's a mafia syndicate.
    Pretty sure they asked for the Arms Dealer not because he is the one they wanted the most but because he is the one that would create the worst possible press for the Biden administration.

  6. #26806
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Pretty sure they asked for the Arms Dealer not because he is the one they wanted the most but because he is the one that would create the worst possible press for the Biden administration.
    This. They're not stupid, and know that every pawn on the board shall be moved so that it causes maximised disorder in the west. Every smallest step counts.

  7. #26807
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Pretty sure they asked for the Arms Dealer not because he is the one they wanted the most but because he is the one that would create the worst possible press for the Biden administration.
    they want the fsb assassin whos locked up in Germany and the fsb guy in brazil lol

  8. #26808
    Warchief Iphie's Avatar
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    So, there's some twitter chatter about a " visibly drunk putin". To be honest that would be very out of character for him.

  9. #26809
    It's been a while since Zelensky was named person of the year by TIME, but it's only today Russia openly condemns TIME for choosing him over Putin.
    Lazarević: Are you a student of history, Mr. Drake? Nathan Drake: ...I've read a book or two. Lazarević: Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot - they were all GREAT men. But do you know why they prevailed? [beat] Because they had the will to do what other men could not. - Uncharted 2

  10. #26810
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Er, while I generally agree with the lack of severity, you do not fuck with other countries' laws. Americans have got to fucking learn to respect the fact that the world doesn't end at US borders. Seriously. It's not a surprise what Russians consider crimes. In fact, when you land in Malaysia, they warn you pretty directly that bringing weed means the death penalty in that country. Wonder what she would have done there.

    For all the hate I could muster up against Russia, if this was law in Russia and she violated it, I'd say she shoulda served out the sentence instead of hoping for American exceptionalism, which she apparently got. One more lady that will promote the attitude that no country's laws matter except the US...
    On principle I agree with you.

    What complicates this specific case was the convergence of 3 factors. Her relative public persona (Olympian, professional athlete with some name recognition and institutional backing), the timing of her arrest (just as relations between the US and Russia nose dived in the wake of the invasion of Ukraine) and the sheer cruelty and severity of her treatment relative to the crime.

    Countries like Iran and North Korea have long engaged in this type of hostage taking diplomacy. Detain the citizen or a dual citizen of a country you have beef with either on real or trumped up charges, throw unnecessarily cruel punishment or treatment at them to force their families to mount political pressure campaigns and proceed to negotiate some type of political, economic or prisoner exchange deal.

    I think this is what we were seeing here with Griner specifically. Malaysia for example doesn't engage in this sort of behavior. They just execute you and treat you horribly because that's simply what happens in their legal system, and that's the reason why they also don't include convicts in their trade negotiations and prisoner exchanges. The very eagerness to engage in these sort of negotiations changes the nature of their imprisonment.

    Russia is effectively a hostage taking nation.

    The other prisoner, Whelan is a more complicated case. I looked into him a bit and there are layers to that one. Whelan was arrested at a time when Russian-US relations were relatively normal. Furthermore Whelan is a shady character, he was dishonorably discharged from the Marines after being convicted for larceny and falsifying records and reports (never ever mentioned in the media where they usually just speak of him as a former Navy man), he has a track record of lying about his qualifications and professional background, yet somehow he ended up getting a law enforcement job (confusing as shit how exactly considering his record) which he leveraged into a private sector security job. In Russia he was arrested by a division of the FSB that's specialized in financial crimes and he had 80K USD cash on him at the time of his arrest.

    What likely happened there is that the guy got caught up in some shady Russian corruption crapshow, way over in over his head, and the Russians just decided to accuse him of espionage so they could trade him for some other Russian oligarch/mobster/spy etc. I think originally the Russians tried to trade him for Maria Butina at the time, but likely the Trump administration didn't bite due to the optics related to that.

    But yeah, main point being.

    If you're a westerner it's time you reconsider any trips you might have lined up to Russia. But then again, we still see westerns and dual citizens constantly traveling to dumb places like North Korea and Iran cuz...reasons.
    Last edited by Elder Millennial; 2022-12-09 at 04:45 PM.

  11. #26811
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    So, there's some twitter chatter about a " visibly drunk putin". To be honest that would be very out of character for him.
    Probably its his body double.
    Could also be a deepfake
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  12. #26812
    Vodka is a helluva drug.

  13. #26813
    Warchief Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Vodka is a helluva drug.
    Right, but that's the thing, by all accounts he's not a big drinker.

  14. #26814
    It doesn't make Putin's actions right, but he always mentions American imperialism when it comes to justifying himself.
    Lazarević: Are you a student of history, Mr. Drake? Nathan Drake: ...I've read a book or two. Lazarević: Genghis Khan, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot - they were all GREAT men. But do you know why they prevailed? [beat] Because they had the will to do what other men could not. - Uncharted 2

  15. #26815
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    It doesn't make Putin's actions right, but he always mentions American imperialism when it comes to justifying himself.
    That's what we call 'Whataboutism'. it's not a new or novel concept and it's been displayed on this very thread by dozens of people all the fuckin' time.

    So you're right, it's not justification, Putin's just clutching his pearls about people being mean to him because he decided to brutalize a neighboring country.

  16. #26816
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Vodka is a helluva drug.
    Am alr partaking some!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Right, but that's the thing, by all accounts he's not a big drinker.
    How much do we really know about him plus this year events gave him all the reason to drink.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    That's what we call 'Whataboutism'. it's not a new or novel concept and it's been displayed on this very thread by dozens of people all the fuckin' time.

    So you're right, it's not justification, Putin's just clutching his pearls about people being mean to him because he decided to brutalize a neighboring country.
    Well, he successfully uses this colonial rhetoric in Africa and Arabian Peninsula.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-12-09 at 07:50 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #26817
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    It doesn't make Putin's actions right, but he always mentions American imperialism when it comes to justifying himself.
    Who cares?
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  18. #26818
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Right, but that's the thing, by all accounts he's not a big drinker.
    If there ever was a man who ought to pick up drinking, it is Putin.

  19. #26819
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    How much do we really know about him plus this year events gave him all the reason to drink.
    Reportedly, Putin is actually annoyed at his entourage for taking to heavy drinking over stress from this whole war.

    Granted, we can most likely tell that it's not vodka he's been drinking in the video, given that he's visibly holding a glass of champagne.

  20. #26820
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Right, but that's the thing, by all accounts he's not a big drinker.
    Of course he's not. Fun is not allowed.

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