1. #26961
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,861
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    That'd be true and hold weight if they were just trolling without action and haven't been raping and killing civilians for an entire year, causing massive economic damage globally, and destroying the ecosystem through aquatic genocide.

    Their threats should be taken seriously considering the damage they've inflicted.
    Eh, are you ok dude? You sound a bit unhinged...well more unhinged than usual.

  2. #26962
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Their threats should be taken seriously considering the damage they've inflicted.
    Why? The Russians have yet to act out of their usual modus operandi, are you aware what they did to the people in afghanistan back in the day? All that ultimately matters with Russia is the will of their oligarchs and whether they will continue to see this whole ordeal a worthy endeavor.

  3. #26963
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Eh, are you ok dude? You sound a bit unhinged...well more unhinged than usual.
    Something often not mentioned here is how much the Russians have been polluting the sea, directly or indirectly, in their naval incursions on Ukraine. They've killed and are killing an unfathomable amount of sealife, mainly of dolphins and seals.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  4. #26964
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Just ignore anything the russians say. What isn't lies is meaningless drivel.
    I dig a little digging into this and it doesn't state Russia will refuse to talk with NATO countries, hell it actually states they will still talk through other means like the OSCE.

  5. #26965
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Well, should you be worried? Today Russia announced it will no longer respond to summons or security guarantees with NATO, specifically in response to the talk of NATO states being "legitimate targets" a few days ago.

    NATO-Russia communication is "out of the question" currently, while Russia's war is underway against Ukraine, state media reported, after a top Russian official suggested that NATO countries could be "legitimate" military targets.

    According to Russian News Agency TASS, dialogues between NATO and Russia are not going to happen due to current developments. The state-run news agency cited an unnamed source in Moscow with this update.

    The source told TASS, Russia "should not be expected" to make "a conceptual return" to previous security guarantees that it sent to the United States and NATO a year ago.


    "We won't be the ones to do it," the source told TASS. "The reason is that if we do, the need will arise to update the position, which cannot be updated because everything depends on how the situation on the ground unfolds during the special military operation," the source noted.

    This update comes after former Russian president and deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, Dmitry Medvedev suggested that all NATO nations could be subject to military targeting.
    I don't care. Either way, my children won't have to worry about russia when they grow up.

  6. #26966
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I don't care. Either way, my children won't have to worry about russia when they grow up.
    You have a really optimistic outlook that the only future that awaits Russia is it being demilitarized and economically reduced to a third-world country.

    I have a different view of the future - as soon as 2023 - personally.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  7. #26967
    And to lighten the mood at the subway-station/interview place Zelensky told Letterman this joke:

    Two Jews meet in Odessa. One asks the other:
    "And how is the situation there? What do they say?"
    "Well, what do they say, they say there's war," says the other.
    "What war?"
    "Russia is at war with NATO."
    "So how's the war going?"
    "Well, the Russians lost 70,000 troops, all rockets were used up, a lot of military equipment was destroyed."
    "And how about NATO?"
    "Well, what about NATO? NATO has not arrived yet."

    (As seen on Netflix.)
    Last edited by Forogil; 2022-12-18 at 08:13 AM. Reason: Added where to see

  8. #26968
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    If anything it's Biden that would want to Russia to win, after all we know he has a certain...affinity for the CCP.
    Yeah that must be why every couple weeks Biden is approving hundreds of millions, often billions in military assistance to Ukraine while heavily sanctioning Russia.

    The ones pushing pro-Russian agendas are Conservatives, especially the Trumpists.

  9. #26969
    Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. doesn't want Russia to win, but he doesn't want them to lose too hard.

    Commentators want Russia to be demilitarized and reduced to a third-world country for penance.

    Joe Biden just wants Russia to surrender, then go back to business as before (i.e, before 2022).
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  10. #26970
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. doesn't want Russia to win, but he doesn't want them to lose too hard.

    Commentators want Russia to be demilitarized and reduced to a third-world country for penance.

    Joe Biden just wants Russia to surrender, then go back to business as before (i.e, before 2022).
    The US wants to kill russia without having to be the one to hold the gun.

  11. #26971
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The US wants to kill russia without having to be the one to hold the gun.
    I'm sure we had this conversation several months ago: the one about the apocalyptic danger of a whole bunch of newfound little warlord terror states running amok in Europe after Russia itself collapses. That's the outcome Joe Biden doesn't want to see, and it's why he is offering Russia and Putin to surrender with their lives.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  12. #26972
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I'm sure we had this conversation several months ago: the one about the apocalyptic danger of a whole bunch of newfound little warlord terror states running amok in Europe after Russia itself collapses. That's the outcome Joe Biden doesn't want to see, and it's why he is offering Russia and Putin to surrender with their lives.
    With what exactly? Small terrorist states are easily crushed and destroyed, compared to one massive terrorist state. I'd pick the former any day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  13. #26973
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    I'm sure we had this conversation several months ago: the one about the apocalyptic danger of a whole bunch of newfound little warlord terror states running amok in Europe after Russia itself collapses. That's the outcome Joe Biden doesn't want to see, and it's why he is offering Russia and Putin to surrender with their lives.
    The only thing they'll have left to run amok in is ruins of Moscow.

  14. #26974
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    10,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    With what exactly? Small terrorist states are easily crushed and destroyed, compared to one massive terrorist state. I'd pick the former any day.
    Man, I don't know. Afghanistan and Iraq were shitshows. Based on what's happening in Ukraine I feel like the US would fare better in a conventional head-to-head war against Russia than it did in the war on terror. Obviously a totally different scale, but seems like it'd at least be decided within months, instead of years or decades.

  15. #26975
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Man, I don't know. Afghanistan and Iraq were shitshows. Based on what's happening in Ukraine I feel like the US would fare better in a conventional head-to-head war against Russia than it did in the war on terror. Obviously a totally different scale, but seems like it'd at least be decided within months, instead of years or decades.
    Occupation is hard, destroying a countries military is, relatively, easy.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #26976
    The gerkin seems even more doomer than NOOOOKboy in his latest ramblings. Does make one wonder just who is protecting him given half the stuff he is saying would get anyone else suiciding out a window onto seven bullets in the back of the head. He admits that victory over Ukraine is impossible, that the current authorities are leading the country into catastrophe and that should they loose he will be hanged in Kyiv. Well, that last part isn't true as Ukraine outlawed the death penalty, but I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to make an exception.

  17. #26977
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The only thing they'll have left to run amok in is ruins of Moscow.
    Russia is big and has multiple ethnities under its hood.
    A balkanization if the central government of Russia collapses is absolutely on the table, and the Balkan states aren't / weren't the most peaceful states since yugoslawia fell apart.

    Which is going to lead to more conflicts, refugees (and the Eastern European nations will surely love to take in Refugees that are ethnic russians) and so forth.
    It's also going to cause a lot of drama internationally, if Russia falls apart, any major nation will leap on it because Russia is still a resource rich country, which, combined with the balkanization can lead to a lot of proxy wars.

    While i don't necessarily see a intact russian government as the superior solution, considering that any successor of Putin will at best be Putin without the expanionistic tendencies, the alternative also isn't very appealing.

  18. #26978
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,861
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The gerkin seems even more doomer than NOOOOKboy in his latest ramblings. Does make one wonder just who is protecting him given half the stuff he is saying would get anyone else suiciding out a window onto seven bullets in the back of the head. He admits that victory over Ukraine is impossible, that the current authorities are leading the country into catastrophe and that should they loose he will be hanged in Kyiv. Well, that last part isn't true as Ukraine outlawed the death penalty, but I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to make an exception.
    People "mysteriously" die in custody all the time, accidents happen you know? I swear he ran into that knife 27 times... backwards!

  19. #26979
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Russia is big and has multiple ethnities under its hood.
    A balkanization if the central government of Russia collapses is absolutely on the table, and the Balkan states aren't / weren't the most peaceful states since yugoslawia fell apart.
    The break up of these super state doesn't have to necessarily follow the example of the Balkans, they just tend to be cited because it was a particularly nasty and unsuccessful break up process largely due to the violent genocidal tendencies of the dominant ethnic group.

    Largely peaceful break ups are perfectly possible. We rarely talk about the Baltics and their break up process, or the separation of Czechoslovakia into Czechia and Slovakia. Hell, to some extent, even the UK with this goofy childish Brexit temper tantrum.

    Thing is Russia first has to be knocked on its ass hard enough to give up on those dreams of empire, and second the international community needs to back the process with swift recognitions, investment, more open borders etc.

  20. #26980
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    Largely peaceful break ups are perfectly possible. We rarely talk about the Baltics and their break up process, or the separation of Czechoslovakia into Czechia and Slovakia. Hell, to some extent, even the UK with this goofy childish Brexit temper tantrum.
    I think those examples however have different circumstances.

    The Baltics (and by extension, the entire Soviet Union) went that way because of
    1. a time before the SU was still very much in living memory (anything within Russia's border has no memory of being separated from Russia / SU)
    2. Most people within those states hated the SU
    3. the SU still had internal borders, along which the entire thing broke up
    4. the big guy in Moscow was not willing to use force to keep the thing together

    Czechoslovakia also had the distinct advantage of only two parties being involved, both of which agreed that force isn't on the table to force their claims.

    With Russia however, i think it gets very muddled on what those possible states want, where their borders are and how far they're willing to go to push their claims are some big wild cards in my view.
    And as hinted earlier, if any foreign power sees it within their interest to push a specific separatist movement, this entire thing can get even messier.

    When the Soviet Union fell apart, you pretty much just had the US as super power (to whom most european nations that formerly belonged the SU turned to), whereas now you also have both India and China (altough i don't think the former has the interest to push any separatist movement).

    It could go that way, but for me there's far too much variance involved to say that we somehow highroll and everything goes a peaceful way.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •