Russian invasion of Ukraine

[jonnysensible]

Sheesh, the gherkin is going all out on trying to get himself knocked off. Maybe he is suicidally depressed. Latest from him - russians politicians and the president (ie pootie) are trying to distance themselves from the war. Is going badly so they want no part of it, not even talking about it if at all possible. And in another part of the same talk, they are saying Moscow is interested in a truce because of the 'hellish sanctions.' You know, those sanctions pootie says were having no effect.

i like the part where he said he would spend the rest of his life in the hague or be hung in kyiv

[YUPPIE]

According to Ukraine intel (biased), but quickly circulating on the news elsewhere:


DEC 18: Ukrainian defenders, with the help of the underground resistance, have hit the headquarters of the Russian invaders in the town of Shchastia, Luhansk Oblast. At least 16 invaders have been killed, and about 40 more have been wounded as a result of the attack.

Source: National Resistance Center (NRC)

Quote from Resistance: "Thanks to the high-precision strike, 16 invaders and 12 units of military equipment were destroyed. About 40 more Russians were hospitalised with injuries of varying severity. The strike became possible thanks to the underground, which helped to adjust the strike.

[Iphie]

Sheesh, the gherkin is going all out on trying to get himself knocked off. Maybe he is suicidally depressed. Latest from him - russians politicians and the president (ie pootie) are trying to distance themselves from the war. Is going badly so they want no part of it, not even talking about it if at all possible. And in another part of the same talk, they are saying Moscow is interested in a truce because of the 'hellish sanctions.' You know, those sanctions pootie says were having no effect.

Out of curiosity though, how well informed is this Beef Jerky? I know he is, more or less, the whole reason this mess got rolling in 2014, but is he still buddies with his FSB comrades?

[YUPPIE]

Henry Kissinger made a full statement today regarding Ukraine as it is now.
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FULL:

Veteran U.S. diplomat Henry Kissinger said the time is approaching for a negotiated peace in Ukraine to reduce the risk of another devastating world war, but the Kyiv government dismissed his comments as amounting to "appeasing the aggressor" and said there could be no deal involving ceding territory.

Kissinger, 99, and an architect of the Cold War policy of detente toward the Soviet Union as secretary of state under Republican Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford, has met Russia's Vladimir Putin multiple times since he first became president in 2000.

There is no end in sight to the conflict sparked by Putin's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine, which has killed tens of thousands of people and driven millions from their homes. The U.S. and Western allies have criticized the invasion.

Russia now controls around a fifth of Ukraine.

The Kremlin says Kyiv must acknowledge Moscow's annexation of southern and eastern regions. Ukraine says every Russian soldier must leave its territory, including Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014. Kyiv applied to join NATO after Moscow announced the later annexations in September.

"The time is approaching to build on the strategic changes which have already been accomplished and to integrate them into a new structure toward achieving peace through negotiation," Kissinger wrote in The Spectator magazine.

"A peace process should link Ukraine to NATO, however expressed. The alternative of neutrality is no longer meaningful," Kissinger wrote.

Kissinger said that in May he had proposed a cease-fire under which Russia would withdraw to the front lines before the February invasion, but Crimea would be the subject of "negotiation."

The conflict in eastern Ukraine began in 2014 after a pro-Russian president was toppled in Ukraine and Russia annexed Crimea, with Russian-backed separatists fighting Ukraine's armed forces in eastern Ukraine.

"Mr. Kissinger still has not understood anything ... neither the nature of this war, nor its impact on the world order," Ukrainian presidential aide Mykhailo Podolyak said on Telegram.

"The prescription that the ex-secretary of state calls for, but is afraid to say out loud, is simple: appease the aggressor by sacrificing parts of Ukraine with guarantees of non-aggression against the other states of Eastern Europe."

He added, "All supporters of simple solutions should remember the obvious: any agreement with the devil - a bad peace at the expense of Ukrainian territories - will be a victory for Putin and a recipe for success for autocrats around the world."

Kremlin officials were not available for comment late Sunday.

Aaron David Miller, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment think tank, also dismissed Kissinger's proposal, saying in a Twitter post:

"Henry Kissinger calls for cease-fire along borders prewar 2/24 with Russia disgorging its conquests and negotiations on territory seized in 2014. What Kissinger doesn’t allow for are politics on both sides making this idea impossible now, maybe never."

CIA Director William Burns said in an interview published Saturday that while most conflicts end in negotiation, the CIA's assessment was Russia was not serious yet about a real negotiation to end the war.

Putin casts what he calls Russia's "special military operation" as a watershed moment when Russia finally stood up to a Western bloc, led by the United States, seeking to capitalize on the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union by destroying Russia.

Ukraine and the West say Putin has no justification for what they say is an imperial-style war of occupation.Kissinger warned that desires to render Russia "impotent," or even seek the dissolution of Russia, could unleash chaos. Neither Ukraine nor any Western state has advocated either path.

[Corvus]

Kissinger is an irrelevant hasbeen.

The only ones pushing any 'peace' deal are muscovy and it's useful idiots as they are desperate for a truce. It is in the best interest of everyone else to reject it as it would simply encourage others with imperialistic designs.

Why would Ukraine, which is wrecking muscovy's military, want a truce that gave up its land for an enemy that would simply use it to prepare to attack again.

[Elder Millennial]

Can Kissinger do everyone a collective favor and die already?

That man has been wrong on everything, ever, always, his entire career...yet just kept failing upwards and living longer and longer, absorbing the life force of the countless people who died because of him.

[YUPPIE]

People listen to Kissinger when he makes a speech once in a while - as well as it being headline news - because he's been cited as the definition of an American patriot.

Also, his point is apt even if it can go wrong with a truce: that seeking the dissolution of Russia will lead to chaos. There is ultimately no outcome that will be stable.

[Elder Millennial]

People listen to Kissinger when he makes a speech once in a while - as well as it being headline news - because he's been cited as the definition of an American patriot.

Also, his point is apt even if it can go wrong with a truce: that seeking the dissolution of Russia will lead to chaos.

Kissinger is considered a patriot by a tiny group of hardcore neo-libs, shithead "enlightened centrists" and defense industry lobbyists.

The vast majority of Americans on both sides of the political spectrum consider him either a war criminal or a complete shithead. It's either or both.

[Azadina]

Now what is it they say about repeating the same thing and expecting different results…

I’m hopeful that this whole experience might bring a certain poster around to reality, when their constant onslaught of “but what about Russia’s…” all end up amounting to absolutely nothing.

To be fair, it's not quite the same thing. It's like their 20 man mythic raid wiped hard on the boss, and now the remaining 6 are gung ho about downing it next try, after 14 of the raid quit.

[YUPPIE]

To be fair, it's not quite the same thing. It's like their 20 man mythic raid wiped hard on the boss, and now the remaining 6 are gung ho about downing it next try, after 14 of the raid quit.

analogy isn't right, since at 200k estimate for the upcoming assault, we're looking at a horde and not a small fringe of defeatists.

[callipygoustp]

A horde of 200k that consists of the very best of the Russian military.

[Corvus]

Muscovy in 1471 compared to today. Imperialist much?



And it wonders why its neighbours don't like it.



Actually, that list is nowhere near complete. Nor is this longer one.



- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, everything is going to plan.

The memorial to the dead in Saratov had to be sanded and polished and the names of he dead put in two columns. In the decades of fighting in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Syria the names of 318 KIAs had been added. In just 10 months in Ukraine that tally has increased by 199 KIA. Its probably way higher than that given how russia doesn't really report the true numbers of dead. This is all from one region.

[Azadina]

analogy isn't right, since at 200k estimate for the upcoming assault, we're looking at a horde and not a small fringe of defeatists.

You're right, maybe I was too generous in the analogy. 200k with fuck all equipment might not even match the 6 out of 20.

[Sorshen]

People listen to Kissinger when he makes a speech once in a while - as well as it being headline news - because he's been cited as the definition of an American patriot.

Kissinger is a warmongering piece of shit that never paid for the suffering he inflicted upon the world.

[YUPPIE]

Kissinger is a warmongering piece of shit that never paid for the suffering he inflicted upon the world.

regardless of morals, there is probably no person alive more versed in the topics of geopolitics, war, and international diplomacy than Kissinger. Also, since it wasn't in my previous post, here's what Kissinger has had to fully say about Russia today:

“I have repeatedly expressed my support for the allied military effort to thwart Russia’s aggression in Ukraine,” Kissinger wrote.

“But the time is approaching to build on the strategic changes which have already been accomplished and to integrate them into a new structure towards achieving peace through negotiation,” he wrote.

“The preferred outcome for many is a Russia rendered impotent by the war. I disagree.

“For all its propensity to violence, Russia has made decisive contributions to the global equilibrium and to the balance of power for over half a millennium. Its historical role should not be degraded. Russia’s military setbacks have not eliminated its global nuclear reach, enabling it to threaten escalation in Ukraine,” he added.
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Ukrainian response:

“Mr. Kissinger still has not understood anything … neither the nature of this war, nor its impact on the world order,” Ukrainian presidential aide Mykhailo Podolyak said on Telegram.

“The prescription that the ex-Secretary of State calls for, but is afraid to say out loud, is simple: appease the aggressor by sacrificing parts of Ukraine with guarantees of non-aggression against the other states of Eastern Europe,” he said.

[jonnysensible]

Ukrainians need to do far more deterrence. Every time a suicide drone or missile hits their infrastructure or civilians they need to respond with missiles on Moscow.

[YUPPIE]

they need to respond with missiles on Moscow.

that's like, where even Joseph Biden draws the line yeah?

[jonnysensible]

that's like, where even Joseph Biden draws the line yeah?

how do you establish deterrence?

[YUPPIE]

how do you establish deterrence?

probably if the upcoming renewed Kyiv invasion fails considering that's 200k+ dead Russians in one go.

Missiles flying into Moscow though? You know what will happen if that happens.

[MCMLXXXII]

probably if the upcoming renewed Kyiv invasion fails considering that's 200k+ dead Russians in one go.

Missiles flying into Moscow though? You know what will happen if that happens.

Ohhh please tell us, great prophet!