1. #26981
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    aquatic genocide.
    please stop typing this lmao

  2. #26982
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Russia is big and has multiple ethnities under its hood.
    A balkanization if the central government of Russia collapses is absolutely on the table, and the Balkan states aren't / weren't the most peaceful states since yugoslawia fell apart.

    Which is going to lead to more conflicts, refugees (and the Eastern European nations will surely love to take in Refugees that are ethnic russians) and so forth.
    It's also going to cause a lot of drama internationally, if Russia falls apart, any major nation will leap on it because Russia is still a resource rich country, which, combined with the balkanization can lead to a lot of proxy wars.

    While i don't necessarily see a intact russian government as the superior solution, considering that any successor of Putin will at best be Putin without the expanionistic tendencies, the alternative also isn't very appealing.
    Couldn't happen to a nicer country.

  3. #26983
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post

    Major general Andriy Kovalchuk revealed he could “foresee” Russian forces trying to invade Ukraine from the north, east and the south.

    During an interview with Sky News Kovalchuk said: “We foresee such options, such scenarios. We are preparing for it. We live with the thought that they will attack again. This is our task.”
    A very Finnish attitude, I approve.

  4. #26984
    Russia is going to pull out all the stops it what it decrees its winter offensive to all-or-nothing Kyiv. If it fails, I don't know how they'll recover *in time* to renew a similar offensive.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  5. #26985
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Russia is going to pull out all the stops it what it decrees its winter offensive to all-or-nothing Kyiv. If it fails, I don't know how they'll recover *in time* to renew a similar offensive.
    Right…

    Step 1) go for an all out offensive

    Step 2) get stopped before kiev

    Step 3) most of your vehicles get taken out/left behind

    Step 4) ukraine gets armed to the teeth by the west

    Step 5) lets try step 1 again, except without the supplies we had then, and against far superior firepower than we faced before.

  6. #26986
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Right…

    Step 1) go for an all out offensive

    Step 2) get stopped before kiev

    Step 3) most of your vehicles get taken out/left behind

    Step 4) ukraine gets armed to the teeth by the west

    Step 5) lets try step 1 again, except without the supplies we had then, and against far superior firepower than we faced before.
    Now what is it they say about repeating the same thing and expecting different results…

    I’m hopeful that this whole experience might bring a certain poster around to reality, when their constant onslaught of “but what about Russia’s…” all end up amounting to absolutely nothing.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  7. #26987
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I’m hopeful that this whole experience might bring a certain poster around to reality, when their constant onslaught of “but what about Russia’s…” all end up amounting to absolutely nothing.
    Now what is it they say about repeating the same thing and expecting different results… :P

  8. #26988
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Right…

    Step 1) go for an all out offensive

    Step 2) get stopped before kiev

    Step 3) most of your vehicles get taken out/left behind

    Step 4) ukraine gets armed to the teeth by the west

    Step 5) lets try step 1 again, except without the supplies we had then, and against far superior firepower than we faced before.
    your forgot in step 5 ",and with most of the actual soldiers that had training and displine replaced with conscripts that are looking for anyway out they can find"
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  9. #26989
    Sheesh, the gherkin is going all out on trying to get himself knocked off. Maybe he is suicidally depressed. Latest from him - russians politicians and the president (ie pootie) are trying to distance themselves from the war. Is going badly so they want no part of it, not even talking about it if at all possible. And in another part of the same talk, they are saying Moscow is interested in a truce because of the 'hellish sanctions.' You know, those sanctions pootie says were having no effect.

  10. #26990
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Sheesh, the gherkin is going all out on trying to get himself knocked off. Maybe he is suicidally depressed. Latest from him - russians politicians and the president (ie pootie) are trying to distance themselves from the war. Is going badly so they want no part of it, not even talking about it if at all possible. And in another part of the same talk, they are saying Moscow is interested in a truce because of the 'hellish sanctions.' You know, those sanctions pootie says were having no effect.
    i like the part where he said he would spend the rest of his life in the hague or be hung in kyiv

  11. #26991
    According to Ukraine intel (biased), but quickly circulating on the news elsewhere:


    DEC 18: Ukrainian defenders, with the help of the underground resistance, have hit the headquarters of the Russian invaders in the town of Shchastia, Luhansk Oblast. At least 16 invaders have been killed, and about 40 more have been wounded as a result of the attack.

    Source: National Resistance Center (NRC)

    Quote from Resistance: "Thanks to the high-precision strike, 16 invaders and 12 units of military equipment were destroyed. About 40 more Russians were hospitalised with injuries of varying severity. The strike became possible thanks to the underground, which helped to adjust the strike.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  12. #26992
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Sheesh, the gherkin is going all out on trying to get himself knocked off. Maybe he is suicidally depressed. Latest from him - russians politicians and the president (ie pootie) are trying to distance themselves from the war. Is going badly so they want no part of it, not even talking about it if at all possible. And in another part of the same talk, they are saying Moscow is interested in a truce because of the 'hellish sanctions.' You know, those sanctions pootie says were having no effect.
    Out of curiosity though, how well informed is this Beef Jerky? I know he is, more or less, the whole reason this mess got rolling in 2014, but is he still buddies with his FSB comrades?

  13. #26993
    Henry Kissinger made a full statement today regarding Ukraine as it is now.
    ----
    FULL:

    Veteran U.S. diplomat Henry Kissinger said the time is approaching for a negotiated peace in Ukraine to reduce the risk of another devastating world war, but the Kyiv government dismissed his comments as amounting to "appeasing the aggressor" and said there could be no deal involving ceding territory.

    Kissinger, 99, and an architect of the Cold War policy of detente toward the Soviet Union as secretary of state under Republican Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford, has met Russia's Vladimir Putin multiple times since he first became president in 2000.

    There is no end in sight to the conflict sparked by Putin's Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine, which has killed tens of thousands of people and driven millions from their homes. The U.S. and Western allies have criticized the invasion.

    Russia now controls around a fifth of Ukraine.

    The Kremlin says Kyiv must acknowledge Moscow's annexation of southern and eastern regions. Ukraine says every Russian soldier must leave its territory, including Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014. Kyiv applied to join NATO after Moscow announced the later annexations in September.

    "The time is approaching to build on the strategic changes which have already been accomplished and to integrate them into a new structure toward achieving peace through negotiation," Kissinger wrote in The Spectator magazine.

    "A peace process should link Ukraine to NATO, however expressed. The alternative of neutrality is no longer meaningful," Kissinger wrote.

    Kissinger said that in May he had proposed a cease-fire under which Russia would withdraw to the front lines before the February invasion, but Crimea would be the subject of "negotiation."

    The conflict in eastern Ukraine began in 2014 after a pro-Russian president was toppled in Ukraine and Russia annexed Crimea, with Russian-backed separatists fighting Ukraine's armed forces in eastern Ukraine.

    "Mr. Kissinger still has not understood anything ... neither the nature of this war, nor its impact on the world order," Ukrainian presidential aide Mykhailo Podolyak said on Telegram.

    "The prescription that the ex-secretary of state calls for, but is afraid to say out loud, is simple: appease the aggressor by sacrificing parts of Ukraine with guarantees of non-aggression against the other states of Eastern Europe."

    He added, "All supporters of simple solutions should remember the obvious: any agreement with the devil - a bad peace at the expense of Ukrainian territories - will be a victory for Putin and a recipe for success for autocrats around the world."

    Kremlin officials were not available for comment late Sunday.

    Aaron David Miller, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment think tank, also dismissed Kissinger's proposal, saying in a Twitter post:

    "Henry Kissinger calls for cease-fire along borders prewar 2/24 with Russia disgorging its conquests and negotiations on territory seized in 2014. What Kissinger doesn’t allow for are politics on both sides making this idea impossible now, maybe never."

    CIA Director William Burns said in an interview published Saturday that while most conflicts end in negotiation, the CIA's assessment was Russia was not serious yet about a real negotiation to end the war.

    Putin casts what he calls Russia's "special military operation" as a watershed moment when Russia finally stood up to a Western bloc, led by the United States, seeking to capitalize on the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union by destroying Russia.

    Ukraine and the West say Putin has no justification for what they say is an imperial-style war of occupation.Kissinger warned that desires to render Russia "impotent," or even seek the dissolution of Russia, could unleash chaos. Neither Ukraine nor any Western state has advocated either path.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-12-19 at 12:57 AM.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  14. #26994
    Kissinger is an irrelevant hasbeen.

    The only ones pushing any 'peace' deal are muscovy and it's useful idiots as they are desperate for a truce. It is in the best interest of everyone else to reject it as it would simply encourage others with imperialistic designs.

    Why would Ukraine, which is wrecking muscovy's military, want a truce that gave up its land for an enemy that would simply use it to prepare to attack again.

  15. #26995
    Can Kissinger do everyone a collective favor and die already?

    That man has been wrong on everything, ever, always, his entire career...yet just kept failing upwards and living longer and longer, absorbing the life force of the countless people who died because of him.

  16. #26996
    People listen to Kissinger when he makes a speech once in a while - as well as it being headline news - because he's been cited as the definition of an American patriot.

    Also, his point is apt even if it can go wrong with a truce: that seeking the dissolution of Russia will lead to chaos. There is ultimately no outcome that will be stable.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-12-19 at 02:37 AM.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  17. #26997
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    People listen to Kissinger when he makes a speech once in a while - as well as it being headline news - because he's been cited as the definition of an American patriot.

    Also, his point is apt even if it can go wrong with a truce: that seeking the dissolution of Russia will lead to chaos.
    Kissinger is considered a patriot by a tiny group of hardcore neo-libs, shithead "enlightened centrists" and defense industry lobbyists.

    The vast majority of Americans on both sides of the political spectrum consider him either a war criminal or a complete shithead. It's either or both.

  18. #26998
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Now what is it they say about repeating the same thing and expecting different results…

    I’m hopeful that this whole experience might bring a certain poster around to reality, when their constant onslaught of “but what about Russia’s…” all end up amounting to absolutely nothing.
    To be fair, it's not quite the same thing. It's like their 20 man mythic raid wiped hard on the boss, and now the remaining 6 are gung ho about downing it next try, after 14 of the raid quit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  19. #26999
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    To be fair, it's not quite the same thing. It's like their 20 man mythic raid wiped hard on the boss, and now the remaining 6 are gung ho about downing it next try, after 14 of the raid quit.
    analogy isn't right, since at 200k estimate for the upcoming assault, we're looking at a horde and not a small fringe of defeatists.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  20. #27000
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    A horde of 200k that consists of the very best of the Russian military.

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