1. #27001
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    A horde of 200k that consists of the very best of the Russian military.

  2. #27002
    Muscovy in 1471 compared to today. Imperialist much?



    And it wonders why its neighbours don't like it.



    Actually, that list is nowhere near complete. Nor is this longer one.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Yeah, everything is going to plan.

    The memorial to the dead in Saratov had to be sanded and polished and the names of he dead put in two columns. In the decades of fighting in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Syria the names of 318 KIAs had been added. In just 10 months in Ukraine that tally has increased by 199 KIA. Its probably way higher than that given how russia doesn't really report the true numbers of dead. This is all from one region.

  3. #27003
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    analogy isn't right, since at 200k estimate for the upcoming assault, we're looking at a horde and not a small fringe of defeatists.
    You're right, maybe I was too generous in the analogy. 200k with fuck all equipment might not even match the 6 out of 20.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  4. #27004
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    People listen to Kissinger when he makes a speech once in a while - as well as it being headline news - because he's been cited as the definition of an American patriot.
    Kissinger is a warmongering piece of shit that never paid for the suffering he inflicted upon the world.

  5. #27005
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorshen View Post
    Kissinger is a warmongering piece of shit that never paid for the suffering he inflicted upon the world.
    regardless of morals, there is probably no person alive more versed in the topics of geopolitics, war, and international diplomacy than Kissinger. Also, since it wasn't in my previous post, here's what Kissinger has had to fully say about Russia today:

    “I have repeatedly expressed my support for the allied military effort to thwart Russia’s aggression in Ukraine,” Kissinger wrote.

    “But the time is approaching to build on the strategic changes which have already been accomplished and to integrate them into a new structure towards achieving peace through negotiation,” he wrote.

    “The preferred outcome for many is a Russia rendered impotent by the war. I disagree.

    “For all its propensity to violence, Russia has made decisive contributions to the global equilibrium and to the balance of power for over half a millennium. Its historical role should not be degraded. Russia’s military setbacks have not eliminated its global nuclear reach, enabling it to threaten escalation in Ukraine,” he added.
    -------
    Ukrainian response:

    “Mr. Kissinger still has not understood anything … neither the nature of this war, nor its impact on the world order,” Ukrainian presidential aide Mykhailo Podolyak said on Telegram.

    “The prescription that the ex-Secretary of State calls for, but is afraid to say out loud, is simple: appease the aggressor by sacrificing parts of Ukraine with guarantees of non-aggression against the other states of Eastern Europe,” he said.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  6. #27006
    Ukrainians need to do far more deterrence. Every time a suicide drone or missile hits their infrastructure or civilians they need to respond with missiles on Moscow.

  7. #27007
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    they need to respond with missiles on Moscow.
    that's like, where even Joseph Biden draws the line yeah?
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  8. #27008
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    that's like, where even Joseph Biden draws the line yeah?
    how do you establish deterrence?

  9. #27009
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    how do you establish deterrence?
    probably if the upcoming renewed Kyiv invasion fails considering that's 200k+ dead Russians in one go.

    Missiles flying into Moscow though? You know what will happen if that happens.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  10. #27010
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    probably if the upcoming renewed Kyiv invasion fails considering that's 200k+ dead Russians in one go.

    Missiles flying into Moscow though? You know what will happen if that happens.
    Ohhh please tell us, great prophet!

  11. #27011
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    Ukrainians need to do far more deterrence. Every time a suicide drone or missile hits their infrastructure or civilians they need to respond with missiles on Moscow.
    As little as I would care about the Russian casualties should that happen, it'd pretty much guarantee Ukraine's international support being withdrawn. Besides, such terror tactics don't work. WW2 taught that lesson well enough (and more recently, Ukrainians themselves). No, it'd only justify the existence of the war in the eyes of the Russians.
    Last edited by Santti; 2022-12-19 at 09:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  12. #27012
    Stood in the Fire Mazza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    Ukrainians need to do far more deterrence. Every time a suicide drone or missile hits their infrastructure or civilians they need to respond with missiles on Moscow.
    I am not against strikes on Russian soil (actual Russian soil that is) but Ukraine should keep their targets military. Like, if they could get the location of sites where those drones launch from, nobody (except ofc Russia) would condemn attacks against those.

  13. #27013
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    As little as I would care about the Russian casualties should that happen
    That's pretty messed up
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  14. #27014
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    That's pretty messed up
    You are masturbating furiously at the prospect of a nuclear war that would kill billions. Pretty sure you aren't in a position to describe anyone else as "messed up".
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  15. #27015
    Putting aside everything you said, there's a lot of clamoring for Ukraine to strike at Moscow - people saying they deserve to be able to do so. Considering these are indiscriminate retaliatory attacks in mind, that is indeed very disturbing.

    Ukraine is already striking at military infrastructure in Russia. Advocating for the attack of civilians is horrifying.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2022-12-19 at 10:26 AM.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  16. #27016
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Putting aside everything you said, there's a lot of clamoring for Ukraine to strike at Moscow - people saying they deserve to be able to do so. Considering these are indiscriminate retaliatory attacks in mind, that is indeed very disturbing.

    Ukraine is already striking at military infrastructure in Russia. Advocating for the attack of civilians is horrifying.
    Wow it’s almost like bombing the most important city in a country once gives you the leverage to make people back down without having to do it repeatedly.

    Obviously that doesn’t always work - but ‘you aren’t allowed to fight back by bombing the location of the government that is currently trying to genocide you’ is pretty weak as far as arguments ago. Im sure there are lots of things in Moscow that would hurt Putin if he lost them. It’s not a binary decision.

  17. #27017
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    Ukrainians need to do far more deterrence. Every time a suicide drone or missile hits their infrastructure or civilians they need to respond with missiles on Moscow.
    No they dont. That's the fastest way of losing international support and would play right into Putin's hands as we seen in history going after civilians just galvanises them. Also it's a waste of a drone.

    Keeping them on military targets keeps the international support, keeps from having a resdurgsnce in support for the war within Russia. It also with the sanctions means a lot less equipment Russia has to throw at Ukraine.

    Emotions need to be turned off and revenge strikes off the table. Keep it military targets as it does the greatest damage to Russian war effort.

  18. #27018
    The Lightbringer
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    While I wouldn’t care if Ukrainians leveled Moscow in retaliation, the majority of the international support they received would falter. You would still have the USA backing Ukrainian but others would shy away.
    Granted Ukrainians/supporters should be able to get away with more fires/targeting certain members of the Russian government.

  19. #27019
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    how do you establish deterrence?
    I can tell you how you don't do deterrence: by attacking things your enemy doesn't value, and letting them set the narrative seen by third parties.

    Putin, his buddies, and the kleptocrats for whom he manages Russia don't give a damn about random Russians on the streets of Moscow. All Ukrainian terror attacks on Moscow or Russian civilians would do is empower Putin and his false narrative of Russia under attack by Western-backed terrorists in Ukraine.

    What Ukraine is already doing is the right thing: targeting key Russian logistical and strategic nodes as best they can. It hurts Putin's ability to wage war, makes him look weak, and threatens Russia's already questionable ability to deploy its strategic (nuclear) forces.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  20. #27020
    Today Israel formally told Ukraine why it's not supporting them with weapons, and they more or less said it was due to Putin's ties with Bashar in Syria (i.e Putin can be a grave threat in renewing that aid)
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

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