1. #27241
    Yeah yuppie is banned, again.

    So we have some peace and quite for a little while.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #27242
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    One of the big strategic plunders Putin did was starting this war when USA had Democrat president. Republicans are absolutely seething over the money being put into Ukraine. If Trump was still president, että Ukraine would have received none of the US support it had and Russia would be doing much better there right now.

  3. #27243
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    One of the big strategic plunders Putin did was starting this war when USA had Democrat president. Republicans are absolutely seething over the money being put into Ukraine. If Trump was still president, että Ukraine would have received none of the US support it had and Russia would be doing much better there right now.
    Hindsight is 20/20 but i think Putins scheme for some time has been to unravel the Western Alliance.

    A lot of Right wing parties that gained traction during / after the refugeee crisis in 2015 often had ties to Russia, who also happened to be very critical of the EU.
    Russia also had a hand in Brexit (which could've also severely damaged the EU if a knock on effect had actually happened).
    Then there's the 2016 election.

    Needless to say, Putin been working for quite some time undermining western unity, which was partially successful and if the worst case scenarios had come true (such as Trump having the US leave Nato) then he probably had an easier time.
    But i think his initial ploy was largely one to rely on subterfuge, if EU had fallen apart, Nato goes defunct and the US turns isolationists (again), then nations like Ukraine couldn't turn towards anyone but Russia.
    There would've been no need for an invasion because these nations could only realistically turn towards Russia for an alliance.

    But i think after the Biden election he just believed (or hoped) that the western Alliance was brittle enough to shatter if he invades Ukraine, obviously successfully within 3 days as originally planned.
    This entire thing could be seen as the stereotypical villain declaring "the time for subtlety has passed" after his schemes failed and now uses violence as last resort.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-12-23 at 11:08 PM.

  4. #27244
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    One of the big strategic plunders Putin did was starting this war when USA had Democrat president. Republicans are absolutely seething over the money being put into Ukraine. If Trump was still president, että Ukraine would have received none of the US support it had and Russia would be doing much better there right now.
    Putin was waiting for Trump to withdraw the US from NATO so that we wouldn’t be required to defend anyone at which point he could have invaded with not only less support for Ukraine then they are currently getting but Trump and some Republicans would have instead been offering support to Russia instead.

    Let’s face it, Trump showed us just how close we are to going full fascist. If Trump had any intelligence to go with his ambition then at least 35% of the adults would have been full on goose stepping right now with many of our most intelligent being locked up on trumped up charges or killed as he solidified power while his base started establishing their caliphate with another 35% not caring and the last 30% preparing to peacefully protest against people who would violently kill them for it.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
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  5. #27245
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    One of the big strategic plunders Putin did was starting this war when USA had Democrat president. Republicans are absolutely seething over the money being put into Ukraine. If Trump was still president, että Ukraine would have received none of the US support it had and Russia would be doing much better there right now.
    On the other hand Trump is wildly unpredictable at times. The 'wrong' person talks to him last and he publicly announced American troops are on route to Ukraine to defend them from Russia.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #27246
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Hindsight is 20/20 but i think Putins scheme for some time has been to unravel the Western Alliance.

    A lot of Right wing parties that gained traction during / after the refugeee crisis in 2015 often had ties to Russia, who also happened to be very critical of the EU.
    Russia also had a hand in Brexit (which could've also severely damaged the EU if a knock on effect had actually happened).
    Then there's the 2016 election.

    Needless to say, Putin been working for quite some time undermining western unity, which was partially successful and if the worst case scenarios had come true (such as Trump having the US leave Nato) then he probably had an easier time.
    But i think his initial ploy was largely one to rely on subterfuge, if EU had fallen apart, Nato goes defunct and the US turns isolationists (again), then nations like Ukraine couldn't turn towards anyone but Russia.
    There would've been no need for an invasion because these nations could only realistically turn towards Russia for an alliance.

    But i think after the Biden election he just believed (or hoped) that the western Alliance was brittle enough to shatter if he invades Ukraine, obviously successfully within 3 days as originally planned.
    This entire thing could be seen as the stereotypical villain declaring "the time for subtlety has passed" after his schemes failed and now uses violence as last resort.
    The thing is that if Putin had gone "Yeah just an exercise, back to bases." back in February and continued to do nothing actually overt then IMO NATO was on its way to falling apart. Republicans were pushing a more America-first agenda with or without Trump at the expense of the rest of NATO. Western Europe was pretty much ready to stop seeing Russia as any kind of threat. Many European countries had Russian-friendly groups or Russian-paid groups slipping into high enough places. Hell even areas of Ukraine were basically starting to have a meh view instead of a hostile view.

    Biden being president may have spooked him into ending subtlety but in the end Biden was likely without the war ever going to be more than a 1 termer unless Trump went all in again and pushed enough voters away. But he's not the only one in the GQP who would have had nicer view towards Russia and turned the other way.

  7. #27247
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    On the other hand Trump is wildly unpredictable at times. The 'wrong' person talks to him last and he publicly announced American troops are on route to Ukraine to defend them from Russia.
    Not a chance, Trump was actively cowering from Putin while secretly trying to get a tower there and had connections going back decades.

    Trump wouldn’t turn on Putin, the man was actively holding regular meetings with him and making sure there was no records.

    Putin was Trump’s handler.
    @Kallisto

    Part of me really thinks that Putin’s health is fading quick which was why he jumped the gun like he did. He wanted to do this before he was too messed up too.

    He also thought he was in a better situation than he actually was. He over estimated his own military because he under estimated the corruption within their ranks he fostered, he thought he had more support in Ukraine than he really did and potentially thought he had a sleeper cell there ready when things popped off only to find out he had people who was just taking his money.

    All while he surrounded himself with yes men and valued loyalty to him over their ability to do their jobs.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2022-12-23 at 11:26 PM.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  8. #27248
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    The thing is that if Putin had gone "Yeah just an exercise, back to bases." back in February and continued to do nothing actually overt then IMO NATO was on its way to falling apart. Republicans were pushing a more America-first agenda with or without Trump at the expense of the rest of NATO. Western Europe was pretty much ready to stop seeing Russia as any kind of threat. Many European countries had Russian-friendly groups or Russian-paid groups slipping into high enough places. Hell even areas of Ukraine were basically starting to have a meh view instead of a hostile view.

    Biden being president may have spooked him into ending subtlety but in the end Biden was likely without the war ever going to be more than a 1 termer unless Trump went all in again and pushed enough voters away. But he's not the only one in the GQP who would have had nicer view towards Russia and turned the other way.
    Before the 2014 invasion of Crimea yes, but not after that. Lets not forget that Western nations were already helping the Ukrainian army with modern day training prior to the February invasion.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  9. #27249
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Let's be real, "Globalization" is almost certainly a concept invented by Putin's propaganda machine that just means "the globally spanning western alliance that prevents Russia from stealing half of the world's territories".

    Russia does not respect borders, it actively seeks to annex and colonialize every single nation near its borders. And as it expands, more countries become "near its borders". The entire right wing movement of the last 20 years to dismantle western alliances painted as "globalist agenda" are incredibly beneficial to Putin, and nobody on the right cares, especially those in the US.

    They'd hand over the entirety of Eurasia to Putin if it meant they got a border wall that migrants simply cut holes in.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  10. #27250
    The rubble has lost like 17% value compared to the USD in the last couple of weeks, even with moscow pumping money in to artificially inflate it.

    Now there are reports of problems with banks not allowing people to withdraw their own money.

    https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/st...YYFKcFcaAqo8bw

    Time for a bank run?

    There are also reports that pootie is going to forcibly convert people's savings onto government bonds.

  11. #27251
    In Sweden, many people on the left wing are against helping Ukraine. "American imperialism" is, according to those type of leftists, something one should always oppose regardless of what or why America supports something. That said, most leftists (and right wingers) here are pro Ukraine. Strongly. In fact, during our election it wasn't even an issue. No relevant party opposes it.

    If I wanted to destabilize the West I'd fund both fringes, not just one. putin doesn't care about ideologies. putin only cares about destabilizing the West regardless of what we actually end up with. The fact is that many people on all kinds of ideologies for many different reasons are pro russia. It's not a right or left wing thing really. Making it a partisan thing to help Ukraine doesn't help Ukraine.
    Last edited by Voidism; 2022-12-24 at 01:56 AM.

  12. #27252
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    One of the big strategic plunders Putin did was starting this war when USA had Democrat president. Republicans are absolutely seething over the money being put into Ukraine. If Trump was still president, että Ukraine would have received none of the US support it had and Russia would be doing much better there right now.
    If Donald Trump Had Won 'Russians Would Already Be in Kyiv.'

  13. #27253
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    In Sweden, many people on the left wing are against helping Ukraine. "American imperialism" is, according to those type of leftists, something one should always oppose regardless of what or why America supports something. That said, most leftists (and right wingers) here are pro Ukraine. Strongly. In fact, during our election it wasn't even an issue. No relevant party opposes it.

    If I wanted to destabilize the West I'd fund both fringes, not just one. putin doesn't care about ideologies. putin only cares about destabilizing the West regardless of what we actually end up with. The fact is that many people on all kinds of ideologies for many different reasons are pro russia. It's not a right or left wing thing really. Making it a partisan thing to help Ukraine doesn't help Ukraine.
    It's well known pootie has been funding the far right theocrats who see him as a role model and the far left tankies who still associate russia with communism, despite being a far right government, and automatically see anything the west does, and the USA in particular, as evil.

  14. #27254
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    In Sweden, many people on the left wing are against helping Ukraine. "American imperialism" is, according to those type of leftists, something one should always oppose regardless of what or why America supports something. That said, most leftists (and right wingers) here are pro Ukraine. Strongly. In fact, during our election it wasn't even an issue. No relevant party opposes it.

    If I wanted to destabilize the West I'd fund both fringes, not just one. putin doesn't care about ideologies. putin only cares about destabilizing the West regardless of what we actually end up with. The fact is that many people on all kinds of ideologies for many different reasons are pro russia. It's not a right or left wing thing really. Making it a partisan thing to help Ukraine doesn't help Ukraine.
    The left wing parties in Nordic countries have always been Soviet sympathizers in all but name.

  15. #27255
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    The left wing parties in Nordic countries have always been Soviet sympathizers in all but name.
    In Sweden, they've been that by name too.

    What is now the "Left Party" used to openly and explicitly label themselves as communists.

  16. #27256
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Hindsight is 20/20
    Back in February almost every respectable analyst and expert realistically expected Ukraine would fall. The only thing up for debate was really how quickly and what would the consequences be for Russia.

    The Ukrainians really have given everyone whiplash from the Pentagon to Moscow and Beijing. Also nobody quite expected the level of incompetence the Russians managed to display.

    In the past 300 days everyone had to rewrite every single major geopolitical analysis and half the military manuals.

    Right now, the Russian plan seems to be -Keep throwing lives into the meat grinder until the West forces Ukraine to negotiate or until enough fascists win elections in the West to block further aid to Ukraine, but right now, that looks like a pipe dream.

    I personally hoped that at some point after enough casualties and fiascos like that referendum followed by a retreat, the Russian people would say enough is enough. Alas I was wrong. It's clear to me that Russia has become the proverbial boiling frog. As the Kremlin slowly ratchets up the madness the Russians just keep going with the program unwilling to question, doubt or oppose what's being done to them.

  17. #27257
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    In Sweden, they've been that by name too.

    What is now the "Left Party" used to openly and explicitly label themselves as communists.
    Our communists have always been Soviet sympathizers too and in our case it's so damn weird given that the USSR completely sold the Greek Communist Party out during the civil war. But hatred for the US, NATO and whatever else they lump in "Capitalist West" is unending, for them everything is a reason to do a protest in front of the US Embassy. At least ours don't rant about globalism that much.

  18. #27258
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    Back in February almost every respectable analyst and expert realistically expected Ukraine would fall. The only thing up for debate was really how quickly and what would the consequences be for Russia.
    no they didn't. They thought Russia wouldn't invade. (because it would be stupid).

    every respectable analyst was saying 'The ukrainian army of 2014 isnt the same army as 2022 they have completely professionalized, Russia isn't going to invade'

  19. #27259
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    In Sweden, they've been that by name too.

    What is now the "Left Party" used to openly and explicitly label themselves as communists.
    Our Left Party at least on paper is separate from the Communist party.

    They all share the same retarded ideological origins tho.

  20. #27260
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    In Sweden, they've been that by name too.

    What is now the "Left Party" used to openly and explicitly label themselves as communists.
    Same here, really. In 1990 some of the communist parties realized that openly associating with communism was bad PR so they rebranded and merged as the Left Alliance.

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